Help please Thomas Babbs/Jones

[mjay]

Private 9036 Thomas Jones, served as Private 9036
Thomas Babbs

Abt 17/5/1879 - 7/11/1914 (35)
https://www.tiptonremembers.net/index.p ... homas-9036

Dob 17/5/1879 Bilston,

Baptism -

Parents
Mother Elizabeth ??
Stepfather Thomas Jones

Parents Marriage ??

1881 68 Temple Street, Bilston, Staffs.
Thomas Jones (39, Boat Builder, born Frankton, Shropshire), his wife Elizabeth (34 - age incorrect, born Gnossal), and their 3 children Annie L. (12, born Welshpool), Thomas (2, born Bilston), and Sarah J. (2 months, born Bilston).

1891 3 Dale End, Darlaston, Staffs.
Thomas Jones (49, Boat Builder, born Welshpool), his wife Elizabeth (32, born Gnosall), and their 4 children: Thomas (11, born Bilston), Sarah (9, born Bilston), Elizabeth (4, born Walsall) and John (2, born Great Bridge).

1901 Cannot trace Thomas Jones, but his parents were at:
Toll End Road, Tipton, Staffs.
Thomas Jones (59, Boat Builder, born North Wales), his wife Elizabeth (44, now born Tipton!), and their son John (12, born Tipton).

Marriage 1/10/1910 St Martin Tipton
Staffordshire Tipton St Martin
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 170
Marriage date 01 Oct 1910
Groom forename Thomas
Groom surname JONES
Groom age 31
Groom condition bachelor
Groom occupation Miner
Groom abode 55 Bridge Road
Bride forename Annie Elizabeth
Bride surname JONES
Bride age 22
Bride condition spinster
Bride abode 55 Bridge Road
Groom father forename Thomas
Groom father surname JONES
Groom father occupation Boat builder
Bride father forename William
Bride father surname JONES
Bride father occupation Waggoner
Witness 1 Walter THOMAS
Witness 2 Harriet WRIGHT
Notes Groom's father deceased

Thomas Jones (31, Miner, Bachelor) and Annie Elizabeth Jones (22, Spinster), were married on 1st October 1910 at St Martin's Church, Tipton. Their residence at the time of marriage was given as 55 Bridge Road, Tipton. Annie already had a son, James Albert Jones, born on 13th February 1909. It is not known if this was Thomas's son, but James was later recorded as "adopted son", so possibly not.

1911 1 Court 4 House, Harrold Street, Toll End, Tipton, Staffs.
Boarding with Roseanna (46, Charwoman, born Tipton) and Rhoda Cartwright were Thomas Jones (31, Miner - Loader-up underground, born Bilston), his wife Annie (22, born Worcester), and her son James Jones (2, born Wednesbury).

WW1 Records
Private 9036 Thomas Jones, served as Private 9036 Thomas Babbs
Killed in Action on Saturday, 7th November 1914, age 35.
Commemorated on Panel 35 and 37 of Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial, Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium.
1st Bn., South Staffordshire Regiment. 22nd Brigade of 7th Division.
Husband of Annie Elizabeth Jones, of 1 Court, 1 House, Eagle Street, Toll End, Tipton, Staffs.
Born: Bilston, Enlisted: Wednesbury, Resident: Tipton.
First landed France & Flanders, 4th October 1914.
Medal entitlement: 1914 Star, British War Medal, Victory Medal.
Soldier's Papers at National Archives did not survive.
Commemorated here because he appears on a Tipton memorial but served under an Alias.
Commemorated here because he appears on a Tipton memorial.
Link to Commonwealth War Graves Site: www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/925985/

Dod 7/11/1914 (35) KIA Belgium

Burial
Private 9036 Thomas Jones,
Thomas Babbs/Jones has no known grave.

www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/925985/

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/109 ... omas-babbs

Commemorated on Tipton Library Memorial
Commemorated here because he appears on a Tipton memorial but served under an Alias.

Any other info
Private 9036 Thomas Jones, served as Private 9036 Thomas Babbs

Thomas Babbs
[Jones Thomas]
Gender Male
Rank Private
Record Type Military
Death Date 7 Nov 1914
Service Number 9036
Corps, Regiment or Unit S. Staffs Regt.
Title WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description Other Ranks Died Ayland A-Backhouse J
Next of Kin (Name) Relation to Soldier
Thomas Babbs
Annie Elizabeth Jones Babbs 17/6/1889 Widow
James Albert Jones Babbs 13/2/1909 Child
Maria Annie Babbs 23/8/1914 Child

Annie already had a son, James Albert Jones, born on 13th February 1909. It is not known if this was Thomas's son, but James was later recorded as "adopted son", so possibly not.
The first child of Thomas and Annie was Marian Annie, born 23rd August 1914. Thomas's occupation is given as Private in the 3rd South Staffs.

[mjay]

Well I'm completely stumped with this family

Spouse
Annie Elizabeth Jones
Abt ??

Dob abt 1888

Baptism ??

Parents William Jones & ??

Parents Marriage ??

Marriage
Marriage 1/10/1910 St Martin Tipton
Staffordshire Tipton St Martin
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 170
Marriage date 01 Oct 1910
Groom forename Thomas
Groom surname JONES
Groom age 31
Groom condition bachelor
Groom occupation Miner
Groom abode 55 Bridge Road
Bride forename Annie Elizabeth
Bride surname JONES
Bride age 22
Bride condition spinster
Bride abode 55 Bridge Road
Groom father forename Thomas
Groom father surname JONES
Groom father occupation Boat builder
Bride father forename William
Bride father surname JONES
Bride father occupation Waggoner
Witness 1 Walter THOMAS
Witness 2 Harriet WRIGHT
Notes Groom's father deceased

Thomas Jones (31, Miner, Bachelor) and Annie Elizabeth Jones (22, Spinster), were married on 1st October 1910 at St Martin's Church, Tipton. Their residence at the time of marriage was given as 55 Bridge Road, Tipton. Annie already had a son, James Albert Jones, born on 13th February 1909. It is not known if this was Thomas's son, but James was later recorded as "adopted son", so possibly not.

1911 1 Court 4 House, Harrold Street, Toll End, Tipton, Staffs.
Boarding with Roseanna (46, Charwoman, born Tipton) and Rhoda Cartwright were Thomas Jones (31, Miner - Loader-up underground, born Bilston), his wife Annie (22, born Worcester), and her son James Jones (2, born Wednesbury).

1914
Thomas Babbs[Jones Thomas]
Gender Male
Rank Private
Record Type Military
Death Date 7 Nov 1914
Service Number 9036
Corps, Regiment or UnitS. Staffs Regt.
Title WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description Other Ranks
Died Ayland A-Backhouse J
Next of Kin (Name)Relation to Soldier
Thomas Babbs
Annie Elizabeth Jones Babbs 17/6/1889 Widow
James Albert Jones Babbs 13/2/1909 Child
Maria Annie Babbs 23/8/1914 Child

1914
Husband of Annie Elizabeth Jones (formerly Babbs), of 1 Court, 1 House Eagle Street, Toll End, Tipton, Staffs.

2nd Marriage (Married 1st husband Thomas's brother)
1921
John Jones
Annie Babbs/Jones

1921

Dod

Burial

Any other info
Annie already had a son, James Albert Jones, born on 13th February 1909. It is not known if this was Thomas's son, but James was later recorded as "adopted son", so possibly not.
The first child of Thomas and Annie was Marian Annie, born 23rd August 1914. Thomas's occupation is given as Private in the 3rd South Staffs.

Thomas's widow, Annie, moved in as a lodger with her brother-in-law, John Jones. Obviously their relationship flourished as they had two children, John William (born 4th September 1917) and Lilian Florence (born 6th August 1920). The couple eventually married in September 1921, and had a further 4 children.

Annie's child
James Albert Jones, born on 13th February 1909.

Annie Jones & Alfred Jones Children
Marian Annie, born 23rd August 1914.

Annie Jones & Thomas Jones Children
John William (born 4th September 1917) and Lilian Florence (born 6th August 1920).

[mjay]

Well I'm still completely stumped/confused with this family

▪︎What surname do I add Thomas under Babbs or Jones

▪︎I can't find spouse Anne Elizabeth's family?

[Ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
I've gone round and round on Thomas Jones/Babbs but I do have a lead on Annie Elizabeth Jones.
Birth Reg GRO Sep 1889 Bromyard
Annie Elizabeth Jones mmn Roberts. 6A 511

The district covers Upper Sapey which is given as her birth place.

Parents William Jones 1869 Clifton on Teme- 30.8.1950 Little Green Broadwas a and Martha Jane Roberts ,at Tenbury 1871- 10.2.1956 Little Green Broadwas.
They married at Upper Sapey 11.6.1889 ,fathers George Jones and Charles Roberts.
Not sure how Annie got over to Tipton but the rest fits.

As for Thomas Babbs /Jones I've done a lot of follow up on Maria Husskinson nee Bloomfield but there's a big gap for her 1870-1889 when she turns up in Walsall .I can't see a birth record for a son Thomas.

As for the 1901 census ,if he enlisted in 1899 he'd be serving in the Boer War so he wouldn't be on the census.

Sorry I just can't work out what is going on.

Ciderdrinker

[mjay]

Hi Ciderdrinker

Thanks for looking for me,

This family is a real mystery isn't it

[kdwoodie]

Babbs, Thomas
UK, Military Deserters, 1812-1927
Full Name
Babbs, Thomas
Age
21
Service Number
6075
Place of Birth
Bilston, Staffordshire
Birth Year
1879
Desertion Date
11 Dec 1900
Desertion Place
Limerick
Record Date
1900
Primary Unit
1st Yorkshire Light Infantry
Archive Reference
Military Deserters 1812-1927
Conflict Period
Other Service
Served For
United Kingdom

[BC Wench]

These are my thoughts on Thomas Jones born c1879:-

Marriage: 01 Oct 1910 St Martin, Tipton
Thomas Jones, 31, B, Miner, 55 Bridge Road, Thomas Jones (Dec'd) Boat Builder 1879
Annie Elizabeth Jones, 22, S, 55 Bridge Road, William Jones, Waggoner 1888
Wit: Walter Thomas, Harriet Wright

1911 Census: 1 Court 4 House, Harrold Street, Toll End, Tipton, Staffs.
Thomas Jones, Boarder.Married under One year, 31, Miner Loader Up, Underground, Bilston
Annie Jones, Boarder.Married under One year, 22, Worcester
James Jones, Boarder, 2, Wednesbury 1909
(Not sure if James' Father is Thomas)
//
Roseanna Cartwright, Head.Wid, 46, 4 Children 1 Alive 3 Died, Charwoman, Tipton
Rhoda Cartwright, Dau, 9/12 (9months), Tipton

This could be the birth of James Jones above in 1911 census

Birth: JONES, JAMES ALBERT - No Mother's Maiden Name
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 907

After Thomas Jones death, his wife Annie Elizabeth marries Thomas' brother John Jones (as already said in Tipton Remembers)

Marriage: Sep 1921 St Martin, Tipton, Staffs
John Jones & Annie Jones

1921 Census: 1, Ct. 1 House, Eagle Street, Tipton, Staffs
John Jones, Head, Single, 32y8m, Gt. Bridge, Scrap Yard Labourer 1888
Annie E Jones, Widow, 32yrs, Upper Sapey Nr. Worcester 1889
James A Jones, Son, 12y4m, Father Dead, West Bromwich 1909
Marion A Jones, Dau, 7y10m, Father Dead, West Bromwich 1913
John (William) Jones*, Son, 3y8m, Both parents alive, Tipton 1917
Lillian F(lorence) Jones*, Dau, 10m, Both parents alive, Tipton 1920
* John Jones father of these two Annie E. Jones mother not married

Going backwards with Thomas, his parents and his siblings.

His parents Marriage:

Marriage: Sep 1867 Birmingham 6d 180
Thomas Jones & Elizabeth Whitehouse

I can't find the family in 1871 Census

1881 Census: 68 Temple Street, Bilston, Staffs.
Thomas Jones, Head.Mar, 39, Boat Builder, Frankton, Salop 1842
Elizabeth Jones, Wife, 34, Gnosall, Staffs 1847
Annie L Jones, Dau, 12, Scholar, Welshpool, Wales 1869
Thomas Jones, Son, 2, Scholar, Bilston, Staffs
Sarah J Jones, Dau, 2mths, Bilston, Staffs
Benjamin Whitehouse, Visitor.Mar, 53, Brickmaker, Church Eaton 1828
James Whitehouse, Visitor, 13, Scholar, Longton, Staffs 1868

(I think the above Benjamin Whitehouse is connected to Elizabeth Jones nee Whitehouse - still working on that side)

Birth of children in above census

???Birth: JONES, ANNIE LOUISA - MMN: JONES
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in MONTGOMERY Volume 11B Page 236

???Birth: JONES, ANNIE LOUISA - MMN: Blank
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 517

Birth: JONES, THOMAS - MMN: WHITEHOUSE
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 682

JBirth: JONES, SARAH JANE - MMN: WHITEHOUSE
GRO Reference: 1881 M Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 648

1891 Census: 3 Dale End, Darlaston, Staffs.
Thomas Jones, Head.M, 49, Boat Builder Ship Wk., Welshpool, Wales 1842
Elizabeth Jones, Wife, 32, Gnosall, Staffs 1859
Thomas Jones, Son.S, 11, Bilston, Staffs 1880
Sarah Jones, Dau.S, 9, Bilston, Staffs 1882
Elizabeth Jones, Dau, 4, Walsall, Staffs 1887
John Jones, Son, 2, Great Bridge, Staffs 1889

Birth of children in above census born after 1881 Census

Birth: JONES, ANNIE ELIZABETH - MMN: WHITEHOUSE
GRO Reference: 1886 D Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 792

Birth: JONES, JOHN - MMN: WHITEHOUSE (HE IS JOHN WHO MARRIES THOMAS' WIDOW ANNIE ELIZABETH)
GRO Reference: 1888 D Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 41

1901 Census: Toll End Road, Tipton, Staffs
Thomas Jones, Head.M, 59, Wood & Boat Builder/Canal Ship... North Wales 1842
Elizabeth Jones, Wife, 44, Tipton, Staffs 1857
John Jones, Son.S, 12, Tipton, Staffs 1889

I'm still working on this, so will enter the above on BCC, even if it isn't the Thomas Jones we are looking for, rather it all go to waste. It appears that a lot of the Whitehouse family have things going on in the USA.

Goodness only knows where the surname Babbs comes from. After what kdwoodie has entered, I wonder if he gave a false name because of being a Deserter!!.

[kdwoodie]

From Tipton Remembers

IS THE FOLLOWING POSSIBLY THOMAS??
In 1899, a Thomas Babbs (stated born 1879 in Bilston) enlisted in Bilston with the Yorkshire Light Infantry for a period of 7 years and a further 5 years with the Reserves. There was no Thomas Babbs born in the area within 5 years of 1879, so again Babbs looks like an alias. It is a distinct possibility that this man was Thomas Jones. This would also explain why he cannot be traced on the 1901 Census. It would seem that Thomas extended his time as a Reservist as his initial 12 years expired in May 1911, and joined the South Staffs as a Reservist.

The major flaw in this theory is that Babbs stated his mother was Maria Huskisson. She was a multi-married woman with a habit of marrying significantly older men. On the 1891 Census she was married to James Babb and living in Green Lane, Walsall; Thomas would have been 11/12 years old, but there is no trace of him. The wedding certificate of Thomas and Annie Jones in 1910 shows his father as Thomas Jones, a boat builder who was deceased, and this is the genealogy shown above.

There are either 2 men born in Bilston around 1879 who decided to serve in the army under an alias of Thomas Babbs, or there is something we do not understand about Thomas's birth circumstances - an unofficial adoption? This is unlikley to be resolved..

On 10th May 1899, Thomas Babbs enlisted at Walsall with the King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, for a period of 7 years with the Colours, and a further 5 years with the Reserves; he had no previous military experience. Thomas was 20 years of age, had been born in Bilston, was 5 feet 4 inches tall with a 33-inch chest, weighed 119 pounds and was employed as a Labourer. He had fresh complexion, brown eyes and brown hair, and had a scar on his right hand. He described himself as a Wesleyan.

Thomas saw service in the England, Ireland, South Africa - during the Boer War, Malta, Crete, Gibraltar, before returning to England on 1907. In October 1907, Thomas left the regular army, and began his period in the Reserves which expired in May 1911.

The list of 'UK Military Desertions' shows that Private 6075 Thomas Babbs of the 1st Yorkshire Light Infantry (born Bilston in 1879) had deserted on 11th December 1900 whilst serving in Limerick, Ireland. During his time in Crete, he extended his period of service from 7 to 8 years, but in December 1904 was jailed for 10 days for an unspecified offence. In 1906 he was tried by District Court Martial, convicted and imprisoned for 21 days for "quitting his post", this was commuted to 11 days when he embarked on the journey back to England.

Thomas’s service with the Regular Army ended on 10th May 1907 when he transferred to the Army Reserve for a period of 4 years, ending on 9th May 1911.

[mjay]

Thank you all

I'm glad you've managed to get your head around this BCWench, cos I can't
Thanks so much for offering to add this, fingers crossed it all connects. If not, like you say shame to waste a good look up.

[kdwoodie]

The marriage in 1867 fot Thomas Jones and Elizabeth Whitehouse is not them.

Ancestry has images of two marriages

Thomas Jones married Maria Bradbury

St Philips Church Birmingham
19th August 1867
Thomas Jones 24 Bachelor Brass Founder Church Street Ge9rge Jones Boot and Shoe Maker
Maria Bradbury 21 Spinster Gu8lford Street Thomas Bradbury Boot and Shoe Maker
With 1 Mary Ann Bradbury
With 2 Edward Sandford X
Others Signed

Elizabeth married William Faulkner

Staffordshire Philips Church Birmingham
25 August 1867
William Faulkner 21 Bachelor Jeweller Hill Street John Faulkner Gardener
Elizabeth Whitehouse 21 Spinster Hill Street Thomas Whitehouse Brewer
With 1 Martha Maria Middleton
With 2 John Faulkner
All signed apart from Elizabeth who marked X