William James HEATH b 1854 Chichester Sussex.

[AndrewA]

Yes, I have had a quick look, but need a proper plan of action, for a few hours tonight, failing that I will repeat it using Find My Past and Genealogist in the library tommorow.

Of course with a large brood of children, there is also the chance she has re-married, assuming that the William listed is her William, the number of co-incidences are favourable, but of course we all know we can not jump to conclusions so easy.

I knew I recognised the name of that place known as Ooty for short, I think I was it in a TV series with MIchael Palin from Mony Python fame, who took a train journy up to Ooty and went into great detail about its colonial history, its basically like a mini version of England in India, with homes growing "English vegtables." Sweets and cakes were very popular at time and still are today with tourists. It was also a place where British soldiers were sent to recover. It was basically owned and run by the East India Company.

Another interesting fact is that it was also known for its pickles, Williams brothers Earnest and Albert were in the pickle manufacturing buisness.

HOw exciting!

[peterd]

Established Fact number 4:A Marriage Found.
After an eternity of searching, I found an entry for a William James HEath and a Mary Elizabeth Smith last week. Pancras 1877 QTR J. Vol 01b, page 287. The certificate arrived a few days ago, and looks like we have a winner. Only slight change was WIlliams fathers name, listed as Robert HEATH, however we know his middle initial is R, seems to avoid confusion William Senior is using his middle name. Another interesting fact, the marriage was married in the Goldington Chapel according to rites etc of Presbyterians. So looks like William is a non-conformist, oh joy!

I looked for Mary Elizabeth but not come up with anything yet...

who were the witnesses

[peterd]

poss

1861 Moulsham st, chelmsford

William Smith 40 hair ? dealer ? Bellericky, Essex
Mary R Smith 33
William H Smith 12
Mary E Smith 10
Joseph Smith 5
Alice Smith 2
Elizabeth Bumball 77 mother


no mary e in 1871

1871 Moulsham st, chelmsford

William Smith 41 (49) boot maker Billericay, Essex
Mary Smith 43
William Smith 22
Joseph Smith 15
Alice Smith 12
Francis Smith 10
Florence Smith 7
Anne Smith 11
rest chelmsford

[peterd]

1851 Moulsham st, chelmsford

William Smith 30 Hair dresser Billericay, Essex
Mary Smith 23
William Smith 2

[AndrewA]

Thanks peterd, Witnesses were A. SMITH and S SMITH.

As for the other records, well I dont want to put your efforts down, but notice the dates... In title, WIlliam Born 1854, he was also a Baker, so I think that can rule out the rest. I think I have looked up just about every William Heath in the country in census records.

If you read the rest of this thread, there is a tantalising record of a Probate and will entry for a WIlliam James Heath, residence being in Ooty , India, with his death back in London in Hospital. If this is the same William, then it could explain his absence and why his family are living in a nice property with a servant. William has set up a buisness in India and is spending long periods away from home in Ooty as a baker and confectioneer, one line of enquiry is to find out if he was in the employ of East India Company.

Exciting stuff, hope this is not a red herring.

[peterd]

A smith could be annie or alice mary sister s smith might be a sister in law think the 1851, 61, 71 census for the smiths mary elizabeth family looks good

[AndrewA]

I have just this minute opened up the envelope containing death certificate, this wait has been excruciatingly slow, but now I have it.
The certificate does indeed appear to tie in with the probate entry, and more importantly the age is correct for his birth in 1854.

I panicked a bit initially seeing year as 1899, but it"™s just the way the 7 has been written, a 7 appear in other place and its identical, but no mention of Ooty as place of residence, however could it be that he did have more than one address being used.

I think you should now read the certificate details, there is a number of possibilities regarding this, and later I will do a few more methodical searches .

When and where Died:
27th December 1897, University College Hospital
Age : 43 Years
Occupation
Baker Master of 33 London Road Kingston on Thames,
Cause of Death
Pulmonary abscess, Cerebral abscesses . 18 month coma. 24 Hours certified by C Dykes MB
Signature description and residence of informant
H J Shelley. The person causing the body to be buried. 33 London Road Kingston on Thames.
Registered
13 Dec 1897 Pancras, death in sub-district of Tottenham Court in the County of London.

[AndrewA]

1891 census has the following for 33 London Road. Today its Fabric Land.

Surrey, Kingston on themes, District 16, peice 611 Folio 48 Page 5
Herberyt J SHELLEY, agr 43, occupation builder (Plumber)?
Fanny Wife, 42
Herbert Son 19 Apprentice Plumber
Lillian Dau 16 Dress Milliner
Daisy Dau 14
May 3

They also appear in the 1901 Census, however Herbert SHELLEY has died, as wife is listed as widow and the owner of the builders company. she lives with the 2 youngest and her sister inlaw.


So no clues yet as to why this Herbert is responsible for Williams burial> I am still confient that I have the right person, the death certificate matchest details on probate entry. Could be just a buisness partner or close friend.

[gardener]

Marriages Sep 1871
SHELLEY Herbert John Epsom 2a 15
Smith Fanny Epsom 2a 15

[gardener]

This might interest you
http://archive.org/stream/nilgiriguidea ... p_djvu.txt

[AndrewA]

This might interest you
http://archive.org/stream/nilgiriguidea ... p_djvu.txt

SUPERB!

Thank you ever so much for looking this up, I had made a start on national archives, but thats a nightmare to navigate, as always.

Anyway, what you found is certainly is exciting! As always we have to be always 100% certain before jumping to conclusions as a lot of HEATH's did emigrate around the world, but come on, whats the odds of another baker/confectioner called HEATH setting up shop?

Here is the extract which mentions it.
The road to the right begins the Ootacamund-Coonoor ghat,
and it may be observed, in passing, that from this point
the olden day tongas began 01 ended their ghat journeys.
To the left, and up the steep hill, we ascend Church
Hill Road, passing Messrs. Oakes & Co.'s establish-
ment on the right, and meeting the Wenlock Road again.
Here a branch inclining to the left leads to the Bank of
Madras, Messrs. Heath & Co.'s confectionery shop and
refreshment room, the Nilgiri Library, and Messrs.
Bailey Bros/ establishment. Continuing, Church Hill
passes Messrs. Spencer & Co.'s and terminates on a
crest of the hill at the large gates of St. Stephen's
Church.

Theres also a broken reference to a hotel part run by what looks like could be HEATH confectioner.

This Hotel is run in
- conjunction with -

H 6? SON, CONFECTK
HEAT
)NERS
HEATH'S HOTEL
For full particulars apply
OWNERS fi? MANAGERS
HEATH 6? SON


Superb! slowly but steadily one step at a time.... excellent stuff! This calls for a smiley or three

[AndrewA]

Oh I was so carried away, forgot to check the actul PDF scans. I see its 1916, nearly 20 years after Williams death, now, this raises more questions, is a family member continuing the buisness or an existing partner? Has it changed ownership completly, but being such an established name, it continues to trade under that name?

[gardener]

I wondered if it was the same family or not too, but thought it was interesting in any case, just to get some background.
Would it be worth getting the will mentioned in the probate index? It might mention other family members too which could confirm the right connection.

[grangers14]

Oh brilliant!
I agree with gardener, the actual will may help more.
Jo

[AndrewA]

Yes i sent off for the will, only a month to wait....
tick tock
Tick tock

Even if it says next to nothing, at least it should come with a full address, which would be something.