Thoughts on Why and what Could be done?

[grangers14]

Theres been so much in the news and us talking about the riots and looting.
I dont know anybody who thinks its ok...So why do some people do it and think they can? Is it the children, parents, grand parents?
We are shocked when we see in history what people are sentenced to for stealing coal or bread to keep warm or feed the family. Is it that there isnt enough "punishment?"

Is it just are they influenced by wrong people? Was there no one to stop them and put them on the right track?

Just cant get my head round it? Is it parent skills, or just life?

Im a bit soft really and a really good friend said to me once,
"Lifes not like that, people arent like that, that you need to toughen up and open your eyes. You are living in a dream of perfect people"

But wouldnt that be nice? We all dream of peace so why cant we do it?

So not to be too deep I tried youtube for some of the songs I say to my children to listen too

I believe that children are our future, teach them well and let them lead the way. Show them all the beauty they possess inside, give them a sense of pride...


and

Lift me up so high.Watch me fly away. Would you give your life Like a butterfly?

Jo

(if I can get the links right! )

[snoopysue]

I think part of it is that people expect the government to be their nurse maid these days.
I mean if you look at all our ancestors they worked very long hours 6-7 days a week, and if they became unemployed they did their damdest to get a job asap. If they rioted it was due to real injustices, not like some idiot I saw on the news last night who said it was because he didn't think the government and the police did a good job. When asked why he didn't go through normal democratic routes he answered that "they didn't listen"! He couldn't define it more specifically.

I'm all for a social system that helps people out, but they've also got to do their bit too.
The reasons are probably complex, partly social, partly upbringing and some getting caught up in the hype of what's going on. Of course it's so easy to organise now as well, with the internet etc, and that must be part of the difference.

[Northern Lass]

As a student many years ago I saw quite a few of
these organised radical groups, they were always going on one march or the other,
and it was very tempting. And they weren't always peaceful!

I think that some organised people were behind this and others just follow
like sheep.
Not thinking they will get caught.
Easily persuaded or manipulated.

Until they look at themselves these people really look and understand
the wrong that they have done
we are banging our heads against a brick wall.

[MarkCDodd]

They have an anger that needs an outlet.

The organisers of these riots (they are not protests) give them a chance to vent their anger.

Like a spoilt child throwing a tantrum, if you ask why, all they know is "some sort" of injustice has been done to them and they are expressing their frustration.

Because we have taken away their sense of self reliance and community spirit, by allowing them to become dependant on welfare, they haven't turned that anger and drive into helping themselves.

A few see the chance to profit during the chaos by looting and robbing.

They are not the dame as the majority who are venting real anger.

They are profiteers who have even less sense of community and self respect.

[snoopysue]

They have an anger that needs an outlet.

The organisers of these riots (they are not protests) give them a chance to vent their anger.

Like a spoilt child throwing a tantrum, if you ask why, all they know is "some sort" of injustice has been done to them and they are expressing their frustration.

Because we have taken away their sense of self reliance and community spirit, by allowing them to become dependant on welfare, they haven't turned that anger and drive into helping themselves.

A few see the chance to profit during the chaos by looting and robbing.

They are not the dame as the majority who are venting real anger.

They are profiteers who have even less sense of community and self respect.

I definately agree that a lot of people have become dependent on welfare.
My sister in law has just been granted a disability pension, and our feeling is that she's been going after it for years, both her sister and father are on disability pension. From now and for the rest of her life, no-one will ever question whether or not she is able to work! I have a problem with this - it may be okay now, but many people with her condition do work, most only part time. My sister in law claims she can't work, but she is able to cut the lawn, do all of the gardening (albeit a small garden), do all of the cleaning, cooking, washing of clothes, strip wallpaper, paint, help her husband build a shed from scratch etc, etc. I feel she could, if she wanted to, work at least part time.
She could have applied for a flex job - this is for people who, because of their health, can't work full time. The council helps both the employer and the employee financially. It means that the people concerned do work, and do feel as though they're contributing to society.
I feel that she really wants to be a housewife, and has done her utmost to get what she wants and someone else gets to pay for it.
In Denmark as in Britain, there seems to be a social inheritance as far as living full time on benefits is concerned, it seems to run in families. People expect that they have the right to benefits, but don't feel that they have to contribute to society itself.
There I've vented my spleen for now......

[peterd]

from the independent about consett

In mid-1980, the steelworks closed, throwing 3,400 people out of work. Unemployment was the highest in mainland Britain, and a deep gloom replaced the red dust of the steelworks that had long lain over the town.

ontop of this was the 1,000 who went from the plate mill 18 months earlier and all the support jobs on top



i worked at the steelworks when it was shut ( i was 19) i ended having to get on my bike (mr tebbitts father) and look for work in various parts of the country, people do get a great deal of welfare compared to when i was made redundant in 1980, this gives them a comfort zone and a reliance on the system which in turn make them think why should they work for an extra £50 or so a week.

if there no work in london or any of the city move like i had to and many other from consett in the same posistion and before any one say well there not the jobs about it was the same in the 80s.

so any of these people and do-gooders who say its because there on welfare with no oppotunites etc, are talking through there collective backsides, some time you have to get off your backside and make you own oppotunities, the only thing the welfare system has done in respect of this current situation is to make thing to easy for people who dont want to work or help themselves. (unless it other people Property)

[MarkCDodd]

They are about to change the disability allowance laws in Australia. If a panel of experts say you are capable of working at least 15 hours a week, in any position, then your are thrown off the pension unless you do those 15 hours.

We also tried to introduce a "Work for the Dole" system a few years ago but the do gooders said we were taking adavnatage of other peoples misfortune.

My father was very upset with the riots in England.

We were living in a single room in 1963. Thats is Mum, Dad and 4 kids under 10, despite my parents both working.

When Norton shut down he moved to Australia to get work.

Whilst here he has had over 10 different jobs.

None of his family in England ever went on welfare.

They did what was needed to make a living and supported each other as well as the community.

He can't understand the mentality that leads to destruction of hard working people's property and business.

[peterd]

Mark im with your father on this i dont mine working and some of my taxes paying for people who need welfare or even find themselves unemployed but want work, doesnt even bother me if someone worked all there life turned 50 carnt find nothing or people wont employ them because of there age and the say sod it semi retire, But i do draw the line at the people who carnt be bothered to try and find work because the system as given them a cushy number, and no amout of fines comunity work etc will do any good because if they dont want to do it they wont.

[mikleed]

NATIONAL SERVICE COMPULSORY, BIRCH, OR TRANSPORTATION.
Mike.

[peterd]

NATIONAL SERVICE COMPULSORY, BIRCH, OR TRANSPORTATION.
Mike.

dont think the aussies will have them, Squadies dont want them watching there back, so that leaves the birch

[MarkCDodd]

They are kicking them out of public funded housing!!!!

That is a pretty good punishment.

[SRD]

They are kicking them out of public funded housing!!!!

That is a pretty good punishment.

Only if they're guilty; eviction proceedings have been taken out before the court case which seems to me at best a bit premature and at worst influencing the court decision. And it seems a bit hard on the parents and siblings who either aren't allowed, are too scared or who have been refused help, to discipline their uncontrollable teenage child, to be thrown out of their home because of the teenager's actions.

[snoopysue]

They are kicking them out of public funded housing!!!!

That is a pretty good punishment.

Only if they're guilty; eviction proceedings have been taken out before the court case which seems to me at best a bit premature and at worst influencing the court decision. And it seems a bit hard on the parents and siblings who either aren't allowed, are too scared or who have been refused help, to discipline their uncontrollable teenage child, to be thrown out of their home because of the teenager's actions.

If the parents don't discipline their kids then who should? For me it's all part of the responsibility they took on when they became parents! Do agree they should wait until after the verdict though!

[peterd]

They are kicking them out of public funded housing!!!!

That is a pretty good punishment.

Only if they're guilty; eviction proceedings have been taken out before the court case which seems to me at best a bit premature and at worst influencing the court decision. And it seems a bit hard on the parents and siblings who either aren't allowed, are too scared or who have been refused help, to discipline their uncontrollable teenage child, to be thrown out of their home because of the teenager's actions.

If the parents don't discipline their kids then who should? For me it's all part of the responsibility they took on when they became parents! Do agree they should wait until after the verdict though!

dont think kicking them out of social housing will work especially if others are involved then the will scream brech of there human right and it will cost us more in the long run same with stopping benifit the only solution i can see if there found guilty is to strip them of any assets if they have them down to the gold chains around there necks

[Antie Em]

Makes me sick .....

My mom and dad worked all their life - brought up five girls and made sure we had a good education and jobs. We are all still working, three of us over retirement age, and all our children are either working or at Uni. My daughter went back to work when her two children were babies, because she works in a fast moving industry and would probably have had to resit exams. We reckoned it up a few weeks ago - for two kids for five years going back to 2000 - it cost her £42,000. She could have quite easily stayed at home and received benefits.

I'm nearly 67, sometimes working 12 hours a day - I could retire and probably get benefits if I worked at it.

Makes me sick what some people get away with !!!!!

I have been selected for Jury service in October - just about the time it will take the rioters to get to Crown Court