Immigration and Welfare

[MarkCDodd]

Seperating this from the discussion on the Norway tradgedy.

Yes, Australia has clamped down on boat people.

But we have not stopped people coming in legitimately.

Stopping the boat people saves their lives.

The Liberal Government had the best solution and the people smugglers were effectively put out of business.

The Labour government gave into the "politically correct" so now we have hundreds drowning on the way over and thousands in detention and people smugglers making a fortune from the desperate.

As for asking for skilled labour from the UK, it is no different now than when we came over as 10 pound Poms in 1963.

Dad had to have a skill, in his case motorcycle mechanic, for us to get the OK.

What every country tries to avoid with immigration is the new arrivals becoming dependant on welfare.

Hence the skill requirements enforced for most of the migrant intake.

A large number are still let in on humane grounds but they need to be screened properly which is another reason the smuggled people will be returned to their native countries.

There is very little interest in blaming immigrants for economic or social problems in Australia.

The only Australian political party that ran on that platform, the One Australia Party, no longer exists.

[peterd]

and that the difference mark you have control of your immigration, we dont, between the human right act and the european courts and parliement this leave very little say for english people (i say engish as most settle in england) who are ignored by sucessive goverment, dont forget this country only voted for a common market not a european superstate which we are being driven towards with little control over what we are allowed to do as european law seems to be over ruling british law


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-Act.html

http://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2010/11/29 ... an-rights/


theses are happening time and time again and it does affect what people believe, there are estimated to be over 1million illegal immergrants in the uk + another coulple of million from eastern europe the system cannot cope, people are getting frustrated as there after paying for all this by increasing tax etc.

a lot of people might not like what im saying but it needs talking about and some soultion sorted as the underlying problems will continue, if not until something similar to norway,

[SRD]

and that the difference mark you have control of your immigration, we dont, between the human right act and the european courts and parliement this leave very little say for english people (i say engish as most settle in england) who are ignored by sucessive goverment, dont forget this country only voted for a common market not a european superstate which we are being driven towards with little control over what we are allowed to do as european law seems to be over ruling british law

It isn't true to say 'this country only voted for a common market not a european superstate' as, in every election since, there have been parties standing (of the left, right and centre) who wish to repeal those agreements, none of which have been elected so we can only assume that the majority (and, oddly enough, the rule of the majority is what democracy is all about) do not wish to end our relationship with Europe. Certainly we may wish to adjust that relationship, and a way of dealing with the phenomenal abuse of wages and expenses needs dealing with as well as the leverage that big business has on the decisions made and the way that we deal with criminals, but no party has offered us that option. As far as our responsibilities further afield are concerned, we do have very strict immigration laws, actually stricter than Australia, but there are far more people who want to come here, far more people from countries that we have used as stepping stones to our wealth, and we are wealthy, maybe that wealth isn't evenly spread, with far too much of it being poured into the pockets of owners of media outlets who claim foreign citizenship and no responsibility to pay taxation here despite living here in vast mansions, educating their children here and using the facilities of our National Health Service, people like Lord Northcliffe, whose income derives from family trusts (owned offshore in tax havens) which own the Daily and Sunday Mails, but claims foreign tax status on the basis that his father had foreign tax status.

Which brings us to:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-Act.html

A story about a hit-and-run driver, who was convicted according to the law (which was a damn sight more than the Englishman who killed my father in a hit-and-run accident was), served the sentence according to the law, a sentence that applies to each and every citizen of this kingdom. Why on earth should this person have an extra punishment heaped on him just because he comes from another country? Surely anyone who thinks that foreigners should suffer more punishment for the same crime than an UK citizen must be a racist.

http://ukhumanrightsblog.com/2010/11/29 ... an-rights/

An interesting choice of example, I can only quote one of the early paragraphs: "In fact, what the case really highlights is that the unpopularity of the Human Rights Act is in part due to inaccurate media reporting of human rights cases, even 10 years after it came into force." The main thrust of the argument that won the case is the freedom of movement of all European citizens to visit and work in any country in the Union without let or hindrance, a right that vast numbers of UK citizens take advantage of every year.

theses are happening time and time again and it does affect what people believe, there are estimated to be over 1million illegal immergrants in the uk + another coulple of million from eastern europe the system cannot cope,

Estimates made by the Northcliffe group, a newspaper empire that has more decisions from the PCC against it than all the other daily newspapers put together (although the Express is running a pretty close second at the moment but those are more to do with the pornography empire that its owner uses the Express to advertise) and who have constantly refused to print corrections or apologies despite being proved wrong on countless occasions.

people are getting frustrated as there after paying for all this by increasing tax etc.

Taxes that the vast majority of immigrants to this country happily pay in exchange for the ability to work and keep their families to the same level as the rest of us.

a lot of people might not like what im saying but it needs talking about and some soultion sorted as the underlying problems will continue, if not until something similar to norway,

The reason why people don't like it is because it isn't true. It's the product of an amoral media that is only interested in making untaxed profits by preying on the unjustified fears of little people who can't be bothered to look further than the rag that's delivered to their front door every morning.

[MarkCDodd]

The problem with the immigration debates in the UK and other places is the influence of the racists.

You can't have a sensible debate on immigration intake if the racist element hijack the headlines!

Instead of usefull discussion on economic and humanitarian pros and cons of immigration you get people objecting on colour or religion.

This is what happened to the One Australia Party. The discussion degenerated into an anti Asian crusade similar to the old "White Australia Policy".

That type of thinking was rejected decades ago by the Australian public and therefore the initial popularity of One Australia vanished.

If they have kept to their initial arguments on economic grounds they may still have seats in parliament.

[peterd]

srd i will put my hand up and totally agree with you about closing all the tax loop holes and trust loop holes that allow anyone who earns millions and pay very little tax.

And no i dont agree a general election in this country is an election on european membership as there ususally other circumstances that are just as important than our membership of europe when a general election occurs.

Both the two major parties indicated to the electorl that the would give the people a say on the membership and futher intergration with europe both have wrangled out of it and no matter how you try to dress it up most polls if not all will show a majority of uk citezens wish a halt to futher intergration with europe or a withdrawl. but this may not be needed if a collapses of the euro happens or nations revert back to there original currency ?

and as for the foreign prisoners its law that they should be deported ( excluding certian cercumstances) there over 10,000 conmen, thiefs, drug dealers, rapists and murders we have enough problems with the one who are uk citzens without taking on anyone elses.


and as for boader control with 500 million in the EU and it current open boader policy, our current nhs and welfare system will crush under the influxs from the poorer parts of europe, and not far in the distant future we will properly have the second highest population within europe and we are not in the top 5 for size and poss just scrap in the top 10 so what happens when the full up sign goes up ?