COMPLETED................Smout or Smart?

[Rob]

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =296232236

Is it Martha Smout or Mary Smart.?
On look up done by Rocky Fowler(thanks Rocky) it def says Mary Smart of full age married John Northall of full age 18th February 1844 at Oldbury,Christ Church.Fathers John Northall - Miner and John Smart - Miller(Nailer?) witnesses George Saunders and Rebecca Saunders.

1841 Madely Wood ,Shropshire
Susannah Smart 48
Martha Smart daug 19
Charles Smart son 15 Collier
Stephen Smart son 13
All born county

1851 Eel Street,Oldbury
Martha Northall head 28 charwoman b.Manchester,Lancs
William Northall son 9 b.Salop
George Northall son 7 b.Salop
John Northall son 2 b.Oldbury
Susannah Smart motherinlaw widow 58 pauper b.Madely wood,Salop
Charles Smart son of motherinlaw Coalminer b.Dudleym,worc's

On Ancestry she's constantly referred to as Martha Smout but the lookup definitely says Mary Smart.

see also http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =388298529

Is that Stephan Smart 1841?

[Annie]

I found this birth for a Stephen Smart , but nothing came up for Stephen Smout.

Births Mar 1839
Smart Stephen Dudley 18 254

Poss West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1840
SMOUT
(boy)
Sedgley Dudley Register Office SEG/008/53

West Midlands Birth indexes for the years: 1839
SMART
Stephen
Dudley Dudley Register Office DUD/004/406

Annie

[grangers14]

may sound dim but...
Was Mary really Martha then?

[Antie Em]

OK - I added that marriage for Margaret Smout and Benjamin Goodby as a spare from Rocky. When I add spares, I just add the census after the marriage, to find out where they were born. I had estimated the birth for Stephen Smout, because I didn't add any previous census records, so didn't know when and where he was born.

I have now added the census for Stephen and his children and have requested a lookup for his possible marriage to Sarah Carr.

I have found a baptism in 1827, St Giles, London for Stephen Smout to John and Susannah.

In all these census records, Stephen is born around 1827 in London, Middlesex and is never referred to as Smart - only Smout.

Someone has made an amendment on Ancestry in 1841 and Changed Stephen Smart to Stephen Smout, along with the rest of his family, including Martha. But in 1851, Eel Street, this Martha is born in Manchester.

Maggie

[Northern Lass]

STEPHEN SMOUT Christening: 31 AUG 1827 Saint Giles, Camberwell, London,
Parents:
Father: JOHN SMOUT
Mother: SUSANNAH Extracted

[Northern Lass]

may sound dim but...
Was Mary really Martha then?

1851 Eel Street,Oldbury
Martha Northall head 28 charwoman b.Manchester,Lancs
William Northall son 9 b.Salop
George Northall son 7 b.Salop
John Northall son 2 b.Oldbury
Susannah Smart motherinlaw widow 58 pauper b.Madely wood,Salop
Charles Smart son of motherinlaw Coalminer b.Dudleym,worc's

what is she down as on later census Martha or Mary

[Northern Lass]

something here....

JOHN SMOUT Marriages:
Spouse: SUSANNAH NORTHALL
Marriage: 26 NOV 1810 Madeley, Shropshire, Extracted

I will add in that marriage for martha for moment

[kdw]

1861 Eel Street Oldbury
John Fellows Head Mar 33 Coal Miner Born oldbury
Martha Fellows Wife 38 ? Manchester
William Northall Son Unm 19 Pudler Iron Born Ironbridge Shropshire
George Northall Son 17 Pudler Born Oldbury
John Northall Son 22 ? 12 Road Roller Born Oldbury
Susannah Fellows Daur 5 Born Oldbury
James Fellows Son 3 Born Oldbury
Richard Fellows Son 2 Born Oldbury

[Northern Lass]

I have added in the marriage and her as Mary Smart
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =793678723

how do we know that that marriage is our Martha?
we dont!

Why cant that Martha be dau of Susannah and nothing to do with the Mary Smart that
marries John Northall.

Martha may be the step dau of Susannah

[kdw]

Marriages Mar 1853 (>99%)
FELLOWES John Dudley. 6c 18
JONES Hannah Dudley 6c 18
MOORE Matilda Dudley 6c 18
Northall Martha Dudley 6c 18
WOODHOUS Samuel Dudley 6c 18

Cant find on West Mids BMD

[kdw]

Martha Northall
Father: John Smout
Marriages:
Spouse: John Followes
Marriage: 06 FEB 1853 St Edmund'S, Dudley, Worcester, England

John Followes
Father: Richard Followes
Spouse: Martha Northall
Marriage: 06 FEB 1853 St Edmund'S, Dudley, Worcester, England

[Antie Em]

Perhaps that Susannah in 1841 is the wife then of John Smout - Father of Stephen

They may have moved from London to Shropshire and had other children

There are two entries on Ancestry trees for John Smout and Susannah Northall with son Stephen born in London and Martha born in Lancashire - neither has the family in 1841

1841 : Madeley Wood, Madeley, Shropshire
Susannah Smart, 48
Martha Smart, 19
Charles Smart, 15
Stephen Smart, 13
All Born in County

This entry has an amendment to Smout by Ancestry member - but it definitely looks like Smart. If this is same the Smout family as Stephen - they must have had Martha in Lancashire, and according to the 1851 census, Charles was born in Dudley and then Stephen in London. Wonder what John did for a job.

Some other people with Ancestry trees have mixed up these two families but one of them has Stephen Living in Popes Lane, Oldbury in 1841 - but I can't find him there.



Maggie

[Northern Lass]

So why if they married in 1810 is Martha a Northall and not a Smout?

What we think then is Martha is dau of John Smout and Susannah Northall
and marries a fellows in 1853
before then not married?

[Northern Lass]

Ok this Stephen is a different one

marriage look up done by RF father is Charles
for Stephen

[Antie Em]

Love it when a plan comes together

Will Robbo be OK now