COMPLETED Shorter/Southgate

[SRD]

Hi Staffies how about this lot?
I have a James Shorter (b 1835 d 1912 I think), married to a Victoria Southgate (b 1840 d 1928 I think) in 1862.
I think there were at least 9 children including Arthur James (b 1863), Herbert Sidney (b 1865), Ernest Edwin (b 1871), Gertrude Evelyn (b 1879) and Kathleen Mabel (b 1882).
I understand that Herbert Sidney was a bit of a lad (or a philandering b*****d if you prefer) and there may have been a divorce.
What can you tell me about them all?

[SRD]

If no one wants to run with this it can be archived.

[grangers14]

Possibly Herbert married Rosa Ann Fisher in 1888 Hitchin. They were together on census in 1891 and 1901 one child in 19901 aged 7 but I cant read his name!
1901 says he was born Lincs Spalding

[Jimmy]

1901, looks like it could be Harold C,

Births Mar 1894.
Shorter Harold Charles. Hitchin. 3a. 553.

[Jimmy]

These seem to be in the same house.

1911. Basics, Hitchin, Hertfordshire.
SHORTER HERBERT SIDNEY. M. 1865. 46.
SHORTER ROSA ANN. F. 1866. 45.
SHORTER HAROLD CHARLES. M. 1894. 17.
SHORTER EDWIN ARTHUR. M. 1903. 8.
SHORTER DORIS ROSA. F. 1905. 6.

[SRD]

Thanks.
That looks like them; I have a contemporary link from Harold Charles down to the present day. Family gossip has it that Herbert Sidney was snubbed by his sister-in-law, Lydia Grace Shorter (née Barralet), on a London railway station when she remarked to her young son "We don't talk to divorced people" as she dragged him away from a chance meeting with his uncle sometime between 1910 - 1925. Which was a bit rich considering how bohemian the Barralets could be (sorry rosieb ). There are also tales of Herbert's name being scrubbed from the family bible (unfortunately not now available to us). Is there a way to find out about the divorce? and whether he remarried? I have Herbert Sidney's death as 1956 but that isn't confirmed.

I'm also stuck with a sister to Herbert; Ann M, born (according to the 1881 census) in 1875.

[Jimmy]

Ages fits on deaths.

Rosa A Shorter.
Birth Date: abt 1865.
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1948.
Age at Death: 83.
Registration district: Hitchin.
Inferred County: Hertfordshire.
Volume: 4b.
Page: 81.

Herbert S Shorter.
Birth Date: abt 1865.
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1956.
Age at Death: 91.
Registration district: Hitchin.
Inferred County: Hertfordshire.
Volume: 4b.
Page: 139.

--------------------

The only other marriage I can see,

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005.
about Herbert S Shorter.
Name: Herbert S Shorter.
Spouse Surname: Hancock.
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1935.
Registration district: Dartford.
Inferred County: Kent.
Volume Number: 2a.
Page Number: 1615. should be 2613 could be 3 or 5.

Name: Ivy Hancock.
Spouse Surname: Shorter.
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1935.
Registration district: Dartford.
Inferred County: Kent.
Volume Number: 2a.
Page Number: 2613. could be 3 or 5.

[SRD]

Thanks again.
Although that maybe my Herbert Sidney I suspect it's someone else's Herbert Stanley:

Births Mar 1902 (>99%)
SHORTER Herbert Stanley Dartford 2a 510

Marriages Sep 1935 (>99%)
Shorter Herbert S Hancock Dartford 2a 2615

[SRD]

If no-one can find Ann M (b 1865 inferred by census) this can be archived.

[grangers14]

From this SRD?
1881. Wood Lane, Hornsey
James Shorter, head, 45, Railway station master, Tunbridge Kent
Victoria, wife, 41, Highgate, Middlesex?
Herbert S, son, 16, Railway Clerk, Spalding Lins
Grace A, daur, 12, ? Northamptonshire?
Victoria, daur, 11,
Ernest E? son, 9,
Ann M, daur, 6,
Getrude E, daur, daur, 1,
All others born Highgate Middlesex

[grangers14]

I wonder if she was really Amy Margaret?
Look at this, it seems to match... but Amy rather than Ann??
Christening.
10th September 1874. St Michael Highgate Camden
Amy Margaret, James and Victoria Shorter, Wood Lane Highgate, Station Master


And christenings still

St Andrew Barnsbury Islington
Born Feb 4th 1863
Baptised 26th April 1863? Arthur James, James and Victoria Shorter, 21 Offord? Street, Clerk

St Michael, Hornsey
Born Jan 22nd 1870. May 1st. Victoria Lallie dr of James & Victoria shorter, Highgate, Station Master

St Michael Highgate
Born 9 June? 1879. 2nd May 1880. Gertrude Evelyne, James & Victoria Shorter, 1 Woodlane, Station Master

St Michael Highgate
Born 31st August 1882. 19th January 1883. Kathleen Mabel, James & Vicoria Shorter, Shepherds Hill Road, Station Master

[SRD]

From this SRD?
1881. Wood Lane, Hornsey
James Shorter, head, 45, Railway station master, Tunbridge Kent
Victoria, wife, 41, Highgate, Middlesex?
Herbert S, son, 16, Railway Clerk, Spalding Lins
Grace A, daur, 12, ? Northamptonshire?
Victoria, daur, 11,
Ernest E? son, 9,
Ann M, daur, 6,
Getrude E, daur, daur, 1,
All others born Highgate Middlesex

Sorry, yes, blame it on fingers too fat because of the food we eat.

[SRD]

I wonder if she was really Amy Margaret?
Look at this, it seems to match... but Amy rather than Ann??
Christening.
10th September 1874. St Michael Highgate Camden
Amy Margaret, James and Victoria Shorter, Wood Lane Highgate, Station Master


And christenings still

St Andrew Barnsbury Islington
Born Feb 4th 1863
Baptised 26th April 1863? Arthur James, James and Victoria Shorter, 21 Offord? Street, Clerk

St Michael, Hornsey
Born Jan 22nd 1870. May 1st. Victoria Lallie dr of James & Victoria shorter, Highgate, Station Master

St Michael Highgate
Born 9 June? 1879. 2nd May 1880. Gertrude Evelyne, James & Victoria Shorter, 1 Woodlane, Station Master

St Michael Highgate
Born 31st August 1882. 19th January 1883. Kathleen Mabel, James & Vicoria Shorter, Shepherds Hill Road, Station Master

Ah, that looks good too. Thanks. I'll make a few enquiries, no-one seems to recall tales of an Ann but an Amy might well turn something up. And Amy might be easier to search for than Ann.

[grangers14]

Not sure but

1891 as a boarder pupil in Private school, Surrey? Street North side? Lowestoft, James Parker head, S, 72, Principle of school

1901 same place I think, 7 Surrey Street North Sidw Lowestof. but as servant Joanna Parker as head, S, headmistress

both say Highgate as christening for place of birth?

[SRD]

If it's Lowestoft it would be Suffolk. Could you post the full entries? It may be that there was a familial reason for her being there. I seem to recall Suffolk connections elsewhere in the family.