*Archived* -Bate

[Carol]

Following on from Rose thread

Found my list now. This is a list of brothers and sisters for Grandad John Thomas Bate-in order of age so far as I know.

Joseph-who married Lena
John Thomas who married Henrietta
Ben-died young at accident in Lenches
Alf married Lilly Green
Stan married Jane Rollason
Ted (Edwin) married Louis-not sure of last name
Annie married Ted Tromans
Ethel who never married

Don't think I have dates of birth or marriage for any beside Stan which I think Mallosa helped me with a while back . May have got lost when old web site crashed unless I printed it off which I probably did.Carol

[Carol]

Dates of birth not known but estimates

Joseph 1892
Alfred 1898
Stanley 1901
Ethel 1903
Annie 1905
Edwin (sorry edwin not edward)-Ted 1906
All born Blackheath and would have been baptised at St Pauls

[Carol]

Thank you once again for all these references. I am thinking about it now and can see that Joan and Annie will be the known daughters of Lena and Joseph. Dad does not know of an Ethel who would seem to be an elder sister for Annie and Joan. I am wondering if Ethel Bate born in 1916 would have died young before Dad's memory. This is intriguing.

Regards Les Rose, it seems likely his parents had passed away by 1944 as don't seem to be present on the wedding photos?

[Northern Lass]

There is an Ethel Bate on the photos isnt there? just wondering if that is her?
Ethel someone...

So I am putting Ethel as dau of Selina and Joseph ...

[Northern Lass]

Deaths Dec 1916 Bate Ethel 0 Dudley 6b 1054

[Carol]

Hi No - there were umpteen Ethels in my family but ones in photos are otherwise accounted for. Dad is not aware of Ethel daughter of Bate/Tooth marriage.

Just checked about marriage for Joseph from Blackheath to Rita at Stourbridge in 1949 and this will be "my" Joseph we have been talking about here-brother of Joan and Annie (and Ethel?)-confirmed by Dad. Well spotted

[Northern Lass]

Think she dies Carol found a death see post above

[Northern Lass]

Think this is Joseph

Births Jun 1891
Bate Joseph Dudley 6c 25

The others for that year are Bates (s)

and the ones in 1892 are the wrong area

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this could be the death of Ben?
Deaths Mar 1908
Bate Benjamin 13 Dudley 6c 10

would then fit with this...

1894
BATE Benjamin Rowley Regis Sandwell Register Office RR/110/399

anyone find this Ben on the census please just to confim dob abt 1894/95

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Could this be Alfred...only one comin out RRegis regis which it would be at that time

1897
BATE Alfred Rowley Regis Sandwell Register Office RR/117/408

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this is odd on the Stanley...not sure of the dob you say 1901 but nothing comin up..

these are though

Births Sep 1908 Bate Stanley W. Bromwich 6b 819
think this one dies in 1909 here
Deaths Sep 1909 BATE Stanley 1 W. Bromwich 6b 391

Then there is this one...hmmm

Births Dec 1909 Bate Stanley Dudley 6c 85

how sure are you it is 1901 Carol?

[Carol]

Hi NL, This is great- I can't keep up. Yes that is my Ben- he was only 13 when he was killed at work at Lenches. He is buried in St Pauls with his elder sister Ethel Bate beneath a tree near the railway embankment.

NL- I will e-mail you a census
Line 6 for Stanley shows age 10 making approx year of birth 1901. Place of birth -Blackheath

Mallosa has kindly sent me the info we found on the Bate/Rollason Marriage
Stanley Bate aged 24 married
Hannah Jane Rollason aged 26
St Pauls Blackheath
August 1924 -date unclear on scan-possibly 12th- I Must have original somwhere

This may indicate a slightly earlier dob of 1900 but approx 1901 for sure

Think births for Alfred and Ben you have found must be correct

[Northern Lass]

Ok need the complete index search then...but I will put 1901 thanks Carol

[Northern Lass]

Carol who is the other child that dies to Joseph and Mary ...we know of Ben who is the other one by 1911?

[Northern Lass]

This looks like possibly Ethel

Births Jun 1902
Bate Ethel Minnie Dudley 6c 16

do you know if she had a middle name?

[Carol]

Hi NL, I think you must have the right Ethel. I have searched and found an MI from St Pauls which reads

Ethel M Bate died 25th Nov 1948 aged 46
Benjamin Bate died 25th Feb 1908 aged 13

[mallosa]

Birth 1899 Qtr 4

BATE Stanley Dudley 6c 8

[Carol]

Thanks Mallosa great detective work.

NL-re other child who died before 1911-we spotted this but Dad has no idea and has never heard of another sibbling. I imagine it would have been an infant death or still birth? I am guessing birth would have been registered at St Pauls. There is a 4 year gap between John aged 17 and Alfred aged 13 on the **** census. That might indicate an approx likely age had they survived of 15 making the birth year 1896-purely speculation

More speculation-if missing child had been a girl and born between John and Alfred she would be the first girl-could be a Mary. Eldest son name Joseph after Dad-so first born dau likely to be Mary after mother. I have seen this naming pattern further back in the Bate tree.