"completed" James GREAVES, b1836, Birmingham

[expat66]

I am so stuck with this one... and this is the character whose story started me off on this whole genealogy roller coaster!
My great great grandfather James GREAVES. We have one photo of him taken in Rio de Janeiro sometime in the 1800s.( see attached... he is the chap on the right)
Stories about what happened to him may have been embellished over the years ( as they do!.. as my Dad put it.. old people sitting round the fire with mugs of Ovaltine....!)
Anyway... he was 'something in the jewellry business.. diamonds/ gold...', he was something to do with the slave trade (?), he had a business partner ( also in the photo we have of him) and someone was murdered... James(?) his partner(?)
Once I started investigating I started to acquire quite a bit of info. on James.... baptism cert., census data 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, marriage certificate. Turns out he was a tinplate worker born in Harborne and ,other than a brief spell in Wolverhampton, spent most of his life living in the Jewellry Quarter of Birmingham. He does not appear to have been affluent ( anything but!).. so how did he end up in Rio?
I can find no record for his death. He is in the 1871 census living in Icknield Street then nothing more for James.
By 1880 his wife ( born Ann Maria HIPKISS) had married again... to a William PETERS... the marriage certificate listed her as a widow.

I am completely stuck... have looked everywhere I can think of on the internet. I can provide more detailed info. if anyone is interested.. certificates etc... mainly looking for ideas of where else I can look.
I am in Canada so can't physically vist anywhere in person... but my parents are in the UK and are always keen to visit the Midlands... so if anyone can suggest anywhere where they might get some info?
I was thinking that if there had been a murder there might be newspaper records?... but where would those be?
Much frustrated!
Expat

[MarkCDodd]

I see James is the father on Ernest Edward Greaves birth certificate in January 1874.

That would narrow down his death to 2nd Qtr 1873 onwards.

Interesting there are Minchin cousins living with them in the 1871 census.

Probably a connection with the Hadleys who married both Hipkiss and Minchin around that time...

[linell]

Hi expat, could James have died abroad, being as he seems to have travelled far and wide You say you have his Baptism, where was he baptised, I have found family information by researching the Churches used by my Ancestors. The place you really need to search is Birmingham Archives, their records on the Jewellery Quarter and all the B'ham Manufactures must be immense, also School, College records, James must have been an Apprentice at some point in time. There are also Rent Books, and Land Tax Records, Wills, the list is endless, you would need a good week at Birmingham to search through their holdings. Linell.

[MarkCDodd]

I just looked through the Birmingham newpapers between 1871 and 1880 and nothing was found via the index. Mind you I might have to look for a Mr. J Greaves.....

[expat66]

Thankyou MarkCDodd and Linell for your replies.... good point about James on his son's birth certificate... that narrows down the death date a bit. Thankyou too Linell for the suggestions of other places to look for leads...I will have to send my parents to Birmingham!
If he did die abroad are there any records for British Nationals deaths abroad?

The MINCHINS... another one of my brick walls which I haven't posted yet! I think that Francis Minchin may have been Frances ARDEN before she got married to Alfred MINCHIN ( 1861 and 1881 census )

Alfred MINCHIN marriage record for 1855 Kings Norton District
Frances ARDEN " " " " " " "

1861 census Well Lane, Edgbaston, Birmingham
MINCHIN Alfred M 26 born 1835 Button Turner born B'ham
MINCHIN Francis M 27 born 1834 Paper box maker born Harborne
MINCHIN John Francis son 6 born 1855 born Edgbaston

1881 census 3, 7 House, Hospital St Court, Birmingham
MINCHIN Alfred M 45 born 1836 Ivory Button Sawyer born B'ham
MINCHIN Fanny M 47 born 1834 Paper Box Maker born Harborne

I have been unable to connect Minchins to Greaves or Hipkisses... so thankyou for the suggestion of HADLEYS as a link... will have to investigate that.

You guys are so fast... do you all have super computer brains or something?

Also have to apologise for the time lag.... 8 hour difference creates some challenges!
Many Thanks
Expat

[expat66]

Oh.. forgot to add that his baptismal records are as follows

St. Phillips, Birmingham Warwickshire England father Matthew GREAVES, mother Charlotte ...Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick James GREAVES 22 Aug 1842 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick Birth: 11 May 1836 .....Father: Matthew GREAVES ....Mother's Name: Charlotte Source Film Number: 813725 Collection: England

His brother George and sister Ellen appear to have been baptised at the same time

I picked up from someone else's tree on Ancestry that his mother's name was WITHERS but I haven't found any evidence of this... any ideas?

[MarkCDodd]

Couldn't find a marriage for Withers/Greaves.

The registration district for Harborne, where Charlotte is living in the 1851 census, is Kings Norton.

I would order her death certificate to see if it gives a clue as to her maiden name.

Name: Charlotte Greaves
Year of Registration: 1855
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Kings Norton (To 1912)
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 107

or

Name: Charlotte Elizabeth Greaves
Year of Registration: 1856
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Kings Norton (To 1912)
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 227

According to the Census, Charlotte was born in Northfield, Worcestershire.

There are planty of Withers in Northfield if you look at the census.

[linell]

Hi expat, the Baptism's at St Phillips (now B'ham Cathedral) looks like James was aged 6, sorry can't read the scan very well, but when all the children were baptised together it usually means they have just moved house/area/Parish, and the parents have the children baptised again in their new Parish, so James and Charlotte could have lived somewhere else, do you have them in 1841 Mark says Charlotte was from Northfield, that is on the Worcester side of B'ham, Kings Norton Reg District is a nightmare, covers a large area of Worcs Staffs and Warwickshire. Here's a link:-

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/dist ... orton.html

Linell.

[linell]

1841 Murphy Row (I think) Harborne

Name Age
Matthew Grenner 25 Yes
Charlotte Grenner 25 No
James Grenner 5 No
George Grenner 3 No
Ellen Grenner 4 MO No

Do you have have them in 1851 Expat

Linell.

[expat66]

This is what I have for 1841 also.

Then in 1851 I found in Metchley Lane, Harborne

Matthew GREAVES 29 toolmaker
Charlotte GREAVES 30
James GREAVES 14 apprentice to tinworker
George GREAVES 13 toolmaker
Joseph GREAVES 7
Esther GREAVES 5

Expat

[linell]

Hi Expat, so James was an Apprentice in 1851, B'ham should have some papers on that

Linell.

[expat66]

So would that be the Birmingham Archives then?
What is the system/ process you have to go through to look stuff up... do you show up at the Archives in person or is this something that can be done via email?
Sorry.... complete novice at this!
Expat

[Maths girl]

So would that be the Birmingham Archives then?
What is the system/ process you have to go through to look stuff up... do you show up at the Archives in person or is this something that can be done via email?
Sorry.... complete novice at this!
Expat

I don't know about the e-mail bit but if you show up in person -- you sometimes need a booking time -- can usually be done via website or phone -- and also need to take identification -- this varies from record office to record office but again the website usually says what they accept . Website again for closing/opening times.

[expat66]

Thanks for the info. Maths girl.... I am now wishing I could visit Birmingham for a couple of weeks!
Expat

[linell]

Hi Expat, MG is right, you have to book and they want ID etc. But you can write and ask the Archivist to search for you, but they do charge about £20.00 an hour, if you are prepared to pay they do the searching for you. Linell.