*Arc tbc* Charles Withers 1812 (Black Country Bugle Article)

[peterd]

right found this in the bugle

here

we have charles here

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =896246027

wife unknown could be Phoebe Southall ?

what can we add to bcc ?

[peterd]

so info we poss can verify

his last will and testament in which he bequeathed the Beehive Inn to his daughter Hannah, on the condition she did not marry a certain George Corfield of Hasbury!
Hannah never did marry George Corfield and she died five years later on 16th March 1895 and is buried in Halesowen Churchyard with her brother David

"In 1881 their son David Withers, aged 44 years, was the publican of the Beehive Inn. David never married and he died in 1889.

On 20th May 1890 Charles Withers died


The Beehive Inn was then with Benjamin Withers, whose wife Mary was reported to have haunted the place as this extract from 'The Halesowen Story' by Lena Schwarz shows (Mary Dingley wife of Benjamin Withers )

George Withers. He was born on 20th October 1887 at Hasbury, and he died in 1954. Presumably, the photograph was taken during the First World War

On 22nd May 1796 John Withers and Elizabeth Bache were married at Kinver Church. John was 24 years old and Elizabeth 19. They had ten children, (we only have 9 who the 10 ?)

The second son, Thomas Withers, was baptised 16th March 1800 at Kinver. He married Sophia Moore, sister of Ann, at Halesowen church on 14th September 1823. They had four children, three boys and one girl.

The third son, Joseph Winters, was baptised at Kinver 17th November 1802. He married Mary Inston in 1842 and they had no children. we dont have joseph

Fourth son Edward Withers was baptised in Kinver on 20th October 1805. He married Sarah Hutton but the date for this union has so far proved elusive. They had five sons and no daughters.( we have sarah unknown? 5 sons we have 4 ?)


Fifth son Henry Withers, whose baptism has not yet been traced, married Sarah Grove on 23rd October 1831 at Edgbaston. They had eight children, four boys and four girls ( were missing a girl?)


The sixth son, Charles Withers, was baptised at Halesowen on 11th October 1812. He married Phoebe Southall on 26th December 1833 at St. Leonard's church, Frankley. They had eight children, six boys and two girls


Seventh son William Withers was baptised at Halesowen church 26th March 1815. He married Mary Andrews on 9th March 1835 at Oldswinford church. They had 14 children, ten boys and four girls, but only six boys and two girls survived.we have 9 kids on bcc


John and Elizabeth's only surviving daughter Elizabeth Withers was baptised at Halesowen church 25th November 1821. She married Isaac Randle on 31st May 1841 at St Thomas's church, Dudley. They had ten children, four boys and six girls we have 8 on bcc ?

jan must have been in contact sometime as there a link to bcc on here website ?

so can we find any of this info so we can fill in the gaps and create links ?

[grangers14]

A little something

1891. Bee Hive Inn, Hagley Road, Hasbury
Hannah Withers, head, 43, Publican,
Emma Walker, servant, 19, domestic servant, Clesbery?
Thomas Hall, servant, 52, Brewer,
Hannah Hall, Lodger (wife crossed out)
Others born Halesowen

1901. Spring Hill, Hasbury
Benjamin Withers, head, 44, Publican,
Mary, wife, 43,
Amelia, daur, 22,
Beatrice, daur, 8,
Charlotte, serv, 23, Servant (domestic) Clesbury Mortimers?
All others born Halesowen

1911. Mount Street Hasbury Halesowen
WITHERS, Benjamin Head Married M 55 1856 Retired Carter And Publican (Private Means crossed out) Worc Halesowen

WITHERS, Mary Wife Married 36 years, 5 children, 2 living F 55 1856 Worc Halesowen

WITHERS, Beatrice Daughter Single F 18 1893 Dressmaker Worker Worc Halesowen

[grangers14]

Sorry in a bit of a pickle, keep losing track
Was the info from the bugle or herre?
http://halesowenroots.com/Moresouthalls1.htm

[peterd]

Sorry in a bit of a pickle, keep losing track
Was the info from the bugle or herre?
http://halesowenroots.com/Moresouthalls1.htm

bugle see link

[peterd]

1901. Spring Hill, Hasbury
Benjamin Withers, head, 44, Publican,
Mary, wife, 43,
Amelia, daur, 22,
Beatrice, daur, 8,
Charlotte, serv, 23, Servant (domestic) Clesbury Mortimers?
All others born Halesowen

1911. Mount Street Hasbury Halesowen
WITHERS, Benjamin Head Married M 55 1856 Retired Carter And Publican (Private Means crossed out) Worc Halesowen

WITHERS, Mary Wife Married 36 years, 5 children, 2 living F 55 1856 Worc Halesowen

WITHERS, Beatrice Daughter Single F 18 1893 Dressmaker Worker Worc Halesowen

marriage checks out with 1911

WITHERS Benjamin DINGLEY Mary 1875 Halesowen, St John the Baptist West Midlands Dudley Register Office 014/004/191

[peterd]

1881 New Street British Arms, Hasbury, Worcester

Eliza WITHERS W 48 Halesowen, Worcester, Publican (husband charles, mother was ann moore)
Bertha WITHERS 16 Halesowen, Worcester, Nail Maker
Annie WITHERS 14 Halesowen, Worcester, Apprentice Dressmaking
Harriett WITHERS 12 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Elizabeth WITHERS 10 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Charles WITHERS 8 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Alice WITHERS 6 Halesowen, Worcester,
Elizabeth RANDLE W 59 Halesowen, Worcester,


next door


1881 New Street, Hasbury, Worcester

Benjamin WITHERS 26 Halesowen, Worcester, Labourer Colliery
Mary WITHERS 24 Halesowen, Worcester, Nail Maker
Amelia WITHERS 2 Halesowen, Worcester,


next door related ?

1881 New Street, Hasbury, Worcester

Thomas Dingley MOORE 34 Halesowen, Worcester, Horse Nail Maker
Agnes D. MOORE 26 Halesowen, Worcester, Nail Maker
Martha D. MOORE 12 Halesowen, Worcester, Nurse (Dom)
Emma D. MOORE 8 Halesowen, Worcester, Nurse
Thomas D. MOORE 4 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Harry D. MOORE 10 m Halesowen, Worcester,



next house

1881 New Street, Hasbury, Worcester

Joseph DINGLEY 56 Halesowen, Worcester, Nail Factor
Sarah DINGLEY Wif54 Halesowen, Worcester,
Mary H. DINGLEY 15 Halesowen, Worcester, Dressmaker

[dianel]

1881 New Street British Arms, Hasbury, Worcester

Eliza WITHERS W 48 Halesowen, Worcester, Publican (husband charles, mother was ann moore)
Bertha WITHERS 16 Halesowen, Worcester, Nail Maker
Annie WITHERS 14 Halesowen, Worcester, Apprentice Dressmaking
Harriett WITHERS 12 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Elizabeth WITHERS 10 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Charles WITHERS 8 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Alice WITHERS 6 Halesowen, Worcester,
Elizabeth RANDLE W 59 Halesowen, Worcester,

Hate to confuse things, but...

Elizabeth Randle above, born about 1822, Halesowen, could be assumed to be the Elizabeth Withers who married Isaac Randle in 1841 at St. Thomas's. (She is said to be Eliza's sister-in-law - which would fit.) But, if so, who is this?

1881
At Spring Hill, Hasbury
Elizabeth Randle Head Widow 59 b. Worcs., Halesowen
Benjamin Randle Son 34 Labourer Iron Works b. Worcs., Halesowen
Eliza Randle Daur 23 Nail Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen
George Randle Son 18 Nail Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen
Martha Withers Visitor 17 Dress Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen

1871
At Spring Hill, Hasbury
Isaac Randle Head 52 Day Labourer b. Staffs., Harborne
Elizabeth Randle Wife 50 b. Worcs., Halesowen
Benjamin Randle Son 24 Iron Labourer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Mary Ann Randle Daur 20 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Charles Randle Son 16 Mine Lab. b. Worcs., Hasbury
Eliza Randle Daur 13 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Hannah Hackett Boarder 18 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury

Perhaps Elizabeth was visiting her sister-in-law and got counted twice?

[dianel]

1881 New Street British Arms, Hasbury, Worcester

Eliza WITHERS W 48 Halesowen, Worcester, Publican (husband charles, mother was ann moore)
Bertha WITHERS 16 Halesowen, Worcester, Nail Maker
Annie WITHERS 14 Halesowen, Worcester, Apprentice Dressmaking
Harriett WITHERS 12 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Elizabeth WITHERS 10 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Charles WITHERS 8 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Alice WITHERS 6 Halesowen, Worcester,
Elizabeth RANDLE W 59 Halesowen, Worcester,

Hate to confuse things, but...

Elizabeth Randle above, born about 1822, Halesowen, could be assumed to be the Elizabeth Withers who married Isaac Randle in 1841 at St. Thomas's. (She is said to be Eliza's sister-in-law - which would fit.) But, if so, who is this?

1881
At Spring Hill, Hasbury
Elizabeth Randle Head Widow 59 b. Worcs., Halesowen
Benjamin Randle Son 34 Labourer Iron Works b. Worcs., Halesowen
Eliza Randle Daur 23 Nail Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen
George Randle Son 18 Nail Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen
Martha Withers Visitor 17 Dress Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen

1871
At Spring Hill, Hasbury
Isaac Randle Head 52 Day Labourer b. Staffs., Harborne
Elizabeth Randle Wife 50 b. Worcs., Halesowen
Benjamin Randle Son 24 Iron Labourer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Mary Ann Randle Daur 20 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Charles Randle Son 16 Mine Lab. b. Worcs., Hasbury
Eliza Randle Daur 13 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Hannah Hackett Boarder 18 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury

Perhaps Elizabeth was visiting her sister-in-law and got counted twice?

Martha Withers above with Elizabeth Randle in 1881, is the daughter of John & Eliza:

1871
At Gaunts Yard, High St., Halesowen
Charles Withers Head 38 Sawyer b. Worcs., Halesowen
Eliza Withers Wife 38 b. Worcs., Halesowen
Martha Withers Daur 7 Scholar b. Worcs., Halesowen
Bertha Withers Daur 6 Scholar b. Worcs., Halesowen
Ann Withers Daur 5 Scholar b. Worcs., Halesowen
Harriet Withers Daur 2 b. Worcs., Halesowen
Elizabeth Withers Daur 1 b. Worcs., Halesowen
John Withers Father Widr. 74 b. Worcs., Halesowen

[peterd]

1881 New Street British Arms, Hasbury, Worcester

Eliza WITHERS W 48 Halesowen, Worcester, Publican (husband charles, mother was ann moore)
Bertha WITHERS 16 Halesowen, Worcester, Nail Maker
Annie WITHERS 14 Halesowen, Worcester, Apprentice Dressmaking
Harriett WITHERS 12 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Elizabeth WITHERS 10 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Charles WITHERS 8 Halesowen, Worcester, Scholar
Alice WITHERS 6 Halesowen, Worcester,
Elizabeth RANDLE W 59 Halesowen, Worcester,

Hate to confuse things, but...

Elizabeth Randle above, born about 1822, Halesowen, could be assumed to be the Elizabeth Withers who married Isaac Randle in 1841 at St. Thomas's. (She is said to be Eliza's sister-in-law - which would fit.) But, if so, who is this?

1881
At Spring Hill, Hasbury
Elizabeth Randle Head Widow 59 b. Worcs., Halesowen
Benjamin Randle Son 34 Labourer Iron Works b. Worcs., Halesowen
Eliza Randle Daur 23 Nail Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen
George Randle Son 18 Nail Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen
Martha Withers Visitor 17 Dress Maker b. Worcs., Halesowen

1871
At Spring Hill, Hasbury
Isaac Randle Head 52 Day Labourer b. Staffs., Harborne
Elizabeth Randle Wife 50 b. Worcs., Halesowen
Benjamin Randle Son 24 Iron Labourer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Mary Ann Randle Daur 20 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Charles Randle Son 16 Mine Lab. b. Worcs., Hasbury
Eliza Randle Daur 13 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury
Hannah Hackett Boarder 18 Nailer b. Worcs., Hasbury

Perhaps Elizabeth was visiting her sister-in-law and got counted twice?

eliza in the 1881 census is eliza tilsley


http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =254615116



this is your elizabeth withers di who was charles Aunty, husband of eliza tilsley


http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =537831412

[dianel]

So... in 1881 there are 2 Elizabeth Randles aged 59 born in Halesowen, both living in Hasbury?
The one living with Eliza Withers (widow of Charles) is her sister-in-law (according to the census image).
The one living at Spring Hill as Head of the household is Elizabeth Withers, the widow of Isaac Randle and aunt of the aforesaid Charles. So how does Elizabeth Randle, Eliza's sister-in-law fit in?

[peterd]

So... in 1881 there are 2 Elizabeth Randles aged 59 born in Halesowen, both living in Hasbury?
The one living with Eliza Withers (widow of Charles) is her sister-in-law (according to the census image).
The one living at Spring Hill as Head of the household is Elizabeth Withers, the widow of Isaac Randle and aunt of the aforesaid Charles. So how does Elizabeth Randle, Eliza's sister-in-law fit in?

nor only one i didnt see the one at the bottom with elizabeth withers put it down to old age as you said proberly walked between the two houses and register in both houses

[dianel]

But, as you correctly pointed out, Pete, Elizabeth Randle-the-widow-of Isaac is Charles Wither's aunt, not his sister. What do you reckon, did they get the relationship wrong as well as registering her twice???

[Northern Lass]

I will put that Mary dingley marriage for look up
wonder if this is her
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =563865364

[Northern Lass]

Connected up that Mary Dingley looked ok

anymore to go on Pete?