ARC tbc - two big brickwalls for JELL family

[shaneclare]

I have come across two problems:

1 My great great great grandfather was a James JELL, I have his 1894 marriage certificate which shows his age as 32 and father as Alfred, however, I cannot find any James JELL in the birth records for the year 1862, the closest I can get is a Frederick James JELL, obviously I could send away from his birth certificate but don't want to waste my money if wrong, any ideas.

2 My Grandfather William James Frederick JELL was born in 1922 and married in 1941, he had two children but left when my father was two. My grandmother later remarried but I am not be able to find any trace of my grandfather, no marriage or death records. Any ideas would be very helpful.

I hope I haven't asked to many queations as a starter and I hope I've posted in the right section, if not I apologise and if needs be will copy to the correct area.

[Jimmy]

What area would it be. and what was Alfreds occupation.

[Jimmy]

Is this James in 1901. Ashford. Kent. Looks like Jell on image.
James Tell 43.
Ada Zell 34.
Denis Zell 7.
Amy Zell 5.
William Zell 1.
Chales Wood 39.

[shaneclare]

James was married near Dover so not that far from Ashford, his father is stated as labourer on the marraige certificate and James would have been around 39 years old in 1901, I assume you are looking at the census for that year, I couldn't seem to find anything myself but I'm new to this. Another question i'm afraid Jimmy, on your post you seem to be refering to any image, should I be able to see this?

[BC Wench]

Hello shaneclare,

May I jump in here? You say that you are subscribed to Ancestry.co.uk When you type in the name of the person you are looking for, when the results pages come up, when you click on View Image the original page pops up.

If James's parents were Alfred & Jane, you will find them on Ancestry as I have done from 1851 - 1901. I will leave you to find them, but if you get stuck just give a yell. By the way, this particular James Jell's age on the censuses implies that he was born about 1856. Could be that he wasn't telling the truth about his age when he got married.

[gardener]

James was married near Dover so not that far from Ashford, his father is stated as labourer on the marraige certificate and James would have been around 39 years old in 1901, I assume you are looking at the census for that year, I couldn't seem to find anything myself but I'm new to this. Another question i'm afraid Jimmy, on your post you seem to be refering to any image, should I be able to see this?

Hi
I think Jimmy's post means that if you look at the image (via a site like Ancestry as BCWench says) then the name looks like Jell BUT it has been transcribed as Tell (James) and Zell (rest of the family).

Ancestry can have a default setting to search for the exact name that you type in - so if you put in Jell it will only give the results transcribed as Jell. You can un-tick "match all terms exactly" if you want to get results that do not match perfectly.

When you put in a name you can put it an asterisk to work as a wild card - this is good for names which can have different spellings. So Mas* would find all names starting with those three letters.

Names like Jell are harder to find if mis-spelled because you can't start a name with a wildcard. Then you have to play around searching for a first name plus year of birth plus area lived in, or something like that.

[gardener]

The 1881 census has a james Jell, son of Alfred Jell, living Asford. James is aged 25 so born abt 1856. He is a groom - does that fit with the marriage certificate?

[shaneclare]

Thanks everone, I did find the James Jell with father Alfred on the census, but as the birth date doesn't tie up with the marriage certificate I kind of disregarded it. However, if as has been suggested that he may have lied about his age when marrying it could be the one. Am I relying to much on age and is it common for this to be wrong? Lastly, how can I be sure its him?

[shaneclare]

Jimmy, you were quite right, this is the right James Jell, his wife is Ada, (I have the marriage cert and his son, my ggrandfather is william, thanks very much, what did you put into the searchto get this result?

[Jimmy]

I found the marriage,

Marriages Sep 1894.
Beal Walter Moore. Dover. 2a. 1721.
Goldsack Florence Susanna. Dover. 2a. 1721.
Jell James. Dover. 2a. 1721.
Ratcliff Ada Ellen. Dover. 2a. 1721.


The I searched for James *ell in Kent.

[gardener]

Thanks everone, I did find the James Jell with father Alfred on the census, but as the birth date doesn't tie up with the marriage certificate I kind of disregarded it. However, if as has been suggested that he may have lied about his age when marrying it could be the one. Am I relying to much on age and is it common for this to be wrong? Lastly, how can I be sure its him?

Ages should always be taken with a pinch of salt. Usually they are reliable but you have to be open to a bit of creativity
If there is a wide age gap between a couple then they do tend to adjust their ages - the older person claims to be younger and the younger one older (or at least who ever fills in the census tends to give ages which are closer than in reality).
Young brides may have their age on the wedding certificate as older than in reality, just to avoid any problem.
And death certificates give an age which is only what the person reporting the death thinks is correct so that may be right or not.

You are lucky that you have unusual names. You should try and find the potential James in every census and see if the occupation is consistent.
Looking quickly:

James Jell
1861 born 1855
1871 born 1856 farm horse servant
1881 born 1856 groom domestic
1891 born 1853 coachman (groom added) [I think his age is 36 rather than 38, so born 1855]
1901 born 1858 labourer blacksmith

Is it possible that the marriage certificate has been mis-read?
Was he a widow at the time of his marriage? The James in 1891, living with parents Alfred and Jane, was a widow and perhaps had children who remained with his parents in 1901. Is that possible? James' birth place seems fairly consistent.

[Jimmy]

Births Dec 1856.
Jell James. Dover. 2a. 627.

[shaneclare]

Thank you to you all, you've been a great help. Next stop order the birth certifcate and then continue on. The one thing I have found very useful about this is the methods by which you searched and clarified the information until it could clearly only be one person. I shall use these methods going forward.

Just one last thing and I hope its not asking two much item 2 of my original post, does any have any ideas of how to continue this search?

[peterd]

when did your gran remarry have you her wedding cert does it say widow, divorcee, ? if it say spinster poss did marry ?

can you access divorcee file ? ( some one might able to answer this)

what was your granmar maiden name ?

what area were they living in when kids born ? and there names ?

[Jimmy]

William J F Jell.
Spouse Surname: Grant.
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1941.
Registration district: Lewisham.
Registration county (inferred): Kent.

Name: Edith L Grant.