ARC tbc - William Hadley -Help please

[MarkCDodd]

Some people claiming to be cousins have caused doubt on who I thought were the parents of my GG Grandad William Hadley.

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?pid=59160&userid=bcconnections&view=0&rand=642550514&rand=512682429

Trouble is with William, his census returns are all over the place but I was confident enough that I never purchased the wedding cert....

So lets see what the brainpower at BCC think and I won't bias the answer with my "used to be 100% sure" answer.

Of course a wedding look up might be a good starting point. Registered in West Brom but probably married in Oldbury. 4th Qtr 1863. 6b 995

[peterd]

so if ellen father is william then this is 1881 census as there a ellen born to frederick 1880 Rowley Regis


1881: 80 Birm Road, Oldbury, Worcester


William HADLEY 34 Oldbury, Worcester, Gen Labourer
Ellen HADLEY 34 Oldbury, Worcester, Gen Laborer
Mary HADLEY 13 Oldbury, Worcester, Scholar
Josh. HADLEY 12 Oldbury, Worcester, Scholar
Elizabeth HADLEY 4 Oldbury, Worcester, Scholar
Ellen HADLEY 11 m Oldbury, Worcester,

same household

William HADLEY Head 52 Warly, Shropshire, Bricklayer
Harriet HADLEY Wife 50 Rowly, Stafford,
Thomas HADLEY Other 16 Rowly, Stafford, Gen Lab
John HADLEY Other 10 Tetford, Worcester,



next door at 81 are these connected ?


1881: 81 Birm Road, Oldbury, Worcester

Mary SHELDON Head W 70 Darlaston, Stafford, Lodging Housekeeper
Benjamin HADLEY Lodger M 68 Bristol, Gloucester, Coal Miner





If william c 1829 is williams father unlikley harriett is his mother if age is correct so poss william 2nd marriage

[peterd]

poss mar

HADLEY William SIVITER Ellen 1863 Oldbury, Christ Church West Midlands Sandwell Register Office 12/2/126

[Northern Lass]

poss mar

HADLEY William SIVITER Ellen 1863 Oldbury, Christ Church West Midlands Sandwell Register Office 12/2/126

will add that to Smethwick ones

[peterd]

same household

William HADLEY Head 52 Warly, Shropshire, Bricklayer
Harriet HADLEY Wife 50 Rowly, Stafford,
Thomas HADLEY Other 16 Rowly, Stafford, Gen Lab
John HADLEY Other 10 Tetford, Worcester,

could be Marriage ?

HADLEY William TAYLOR Harriett 1863 Smethwick, St Paul West Midlands Sandwell Register Office 9/1/39

[peterd]

1871 Titford ? Road, Oldbury

William Hadley 42 bricklayer, Oldbury
Harriet Hadley 40 Dudley
Arthur Hadley 16 bricklayer, Dudley
Ephriam Hadley 11 Dudley
Thomas Hadley 7 Rowley
John Hadley 10 months Oldbury


$ratherThan

Born Arthur Taylor, he became Arthur Hadley following his mother's marriage to William Hadley.
$submittedBy
$ratherThan

Born Ephraim Taylor, he was adopted by William Hadley in 1863 following marriage to his mother.
$submittedBy

[peterd]

1871 Titford ? Road, Oldbury

William Hadley 42 bricklayer, Oldbury
Harriet Hadley 40 Dudley
Arthur Hadley 16 bricklayer, Dudley
Ephriam Hadley 11 Dudley
Thomas Hadley 7 Rowley
John Hadley 10 months Oldbury


$ratherThan

Born Arthur Taylor, he became Arthur Hadley following his mother's marriage to William Hadley.
$submittedBy
$ratherThan

Born Ephraim Taylor, he was adopted by William Hadley in 1863 following marriage to his mother.
$submittedBy

3 doors up are these related ?

1871 Titford ? Road, Oldbury

William Hadley 53 Labourer Rowley Regis
Hannah Hadley 40 Losty Hill (gosty hill ?)
Samuel J Hadley 23 Labourer
William Hadley 15
Sophia Hadley 14
Alfred Hadley 13 Labourer
Benjamin Hadley 10
Annie Hadley 8
Dorcas Hadley 5
Elizth Hadley 2
Agnes Hadley 9 months

others born Oldbury

[peterd]

1871 Titford ? Road, Oldbury

William Hadley 42 bricklayer, Oldbury
Harriet Hadley 40 Dudley
Arthur Hadley 16 bricklayer, Dudley
Ephriam Hadley 11 Dudley
Thomas Hadley 7 Rowley
John Hadley 10 months Oldbury


$ratherThan

Born Arthur Taylor, he became Arthur Hadley following his mother's marriage to William Hadley.
$submittedBy
$ratherThan

Born Ephraim Taylor, he was adopted by William Hadley in 1863 following marriage to his mother.
$submittedBy

Thomas Hadley 58 Nailmaker Warley Wigorn
Ann Hadley 59 Warley Wigorn
William Hadley 32 Nailmaker Warley Wigorn
Thomas Hadley 28 Idiot Warley Wigorn
Joseph Hadley 20 Nailmaker Warley Wigorn
Henry Hadley 18 Labourer Warley Wigorn
Harriet Taylor 30 Lodger Neddle woman Rowley Regis
Auther Taylor 6 Warley Wigorn
Ephraim Taylor 1 Warley Wigorn


think this william who married harriett Taylor and living with william (in 1881) who married ellen, poss related through is his father thomas ?

[peterd]

1881: 80 Birm Road, Oldbury, Worcester


William HADLEY 34 Oldbury, Worcester, Gen Labourer
Ellen HADLEY 34 Oldbury, Worcester, Gen Laborer
Mary HADLEY 13 Oldbury, Worcester, Scholar
Josh. HADLEY 12 Oldbury, Worcester, Scholar
Elizabeth HADLEY 4 Oldbury, Worcester, Scholar
Ellen HADLEY 11 m Oldbury, Worcester

poss 1871 ?

1871 Stone Street, Oldbury

William Hadley 30 Labourer, Warley Wigorn
Ellen Hadley 25 Oldbury
Mary Hadley 3 Oldbury
Mark Hadley 1 Oldbury


1861 poss 1 of 6 that could be william as if this is him in both census age and place of birth varying

need the marriage look up to see who is poss father ?


mark birth

HADLEY Mark 1870 Oldbury West Midlands Sandwell Register Office OLD/44/136

poss death

HADLEY Mark 1871 - Oldbury West Midlands Sandwell Register Office OLD/24/100

[peterd]

is mark in 1871 joseph in 1881 or is this him ?

1871 Mincing Lane, Rowley Regis

Francis Farrel 31 Coal miner Bimingham
Hannah Farrel 31 Rowley Regis
Joseph Hadley 2 Nephew Halesowen



marriage ?

FERRELL Francis WHITEHOUSE Hannah 1860 Dudley, St Thomas West Midlands Dudley Register Office 204/019/2

[MarkCDodd]

Mark Hadley is the clue for the correct household in the census as Ellen Siviter's father was Mark Siviter.

William in that Census claims a birth place of Warley Wigorn which is still within the West Brom registration district.

Ellen consistently gives Oldbury as her place of birth but her year of birth varies a lot but she is always a lot younger than William.

The Mary Hadley in the 1871 census married William Bisseker in 1886 and one of her children is with William and Ellen in 1901.

William gives a birth place of Smethwick.

Address: 17, Low Town, Oldbury (Worcs)
County: Staffordshire

HADLEY, William Head Married M 69 1832 Chemical Labourer Works Smethwick Staffordshire
HADLEY, Ellen Wife Married F 57 1844 Oldbury Worcestershire
BISSEKER, Rose Grand Daughter Single F 5 1896 West Bromwich Staffordshire

Next door is their daughter Ellen and her husband Albert Ford, my Great Grandparents.

Address: 15, Low Town, Oldbury (Worcs)
County: Staffordshire

FORD, Alfred Head Married M 26 1875 Boat Unloader Copper Ore Oldbury Worcestershire
FORD, Ellen Wife Married F 24 1877 Oldbury Worcestershire
FORD, Lizzie Daughter Single F 1 (1 YRS 8 MOS) 1900 Oldbury Worcestershire

All my Hadleys, Ford and Cutlers end up in Low Town.

In the 1911 census Ellen and William are still in Low Town.

Address: 3 Canal Side Low Town Oldbury
County: Staffordshire

HADLEY, William Head Married 49 years M 73 1838 Labourer Fish Shop Staffs Halesowen
HADLEY, Ellen Married 49 years F 67 1844 Worc Oldbury

Shocking part of the 1911 census the fact that Ellen gave birth to 20 children and only three were still living by 1911.

William claims Halesowen as his place of birth which is where I go wrong compared to other "cousins".

I assumed this was his family in 1841.

Address: Birchyfield Lane, Halesowen, Oldbury
County: Shropshire

BARTON, Daniel M 60 1781
HADLEY, John M 25 1816
HADLEY, Hannah F 25 1816
HADLEY, William M 6 1835
HADLEY, Mary F 4 1837
HADLEY, Hannah F 2 1839 Shropshire

Others say this is the correct one....

Address: Whiteheath Gate, Halesowen, Cakemore
County: Shropshire

HADLEY, William M 34 1807 Shropshire
HADLEY, Sarah F 34 1807
HADLEY, Timothy M 58 1783 Shropshire
HADLEY, Saml M 10 1831 Shropshire
HADLEY, Mary F 8 1833 Shropshire
HADLEY, William M 6 1835 Shropshire

But there are at least half a dozen in the 1841 census that are just as likely.

[Northern Lass]

Rockyfowler has kindly done these look ups
I am not following this thread but do these help?

2 Nov 1863 Christ Church Oldbury
William HADLEY 21 B Labourer Halesowen St Father Samuel Hadley Labourer
Ellen SIVITER 18 S Canal Side Father Mark Siviter Collier
Samuel Hadley X Ann Richards X

and

25 Dec 1863 St Paul Smethwick
William HADLEY 34 B Bricklayer The Quinton Father Thomas Hadley Labourer
Harriet TAYLOR 34 S West Smethwick Father Thomas Southearde??(The Last letters squashed in box) Butcher
Wit; Thomas Hackett X Mary Roberts

if they do Mark pls can you add the above to BCC save wasting the info
if they are no use just say and we can start them as a new thread

[peterd]

Rockyfowler has kindly done these look ups
I am not following this thread but do these help?

2 Nov 1863 Christ Church Oldbury
William HADLEY 21 B Labourer Halesowen St Father Samuel Hadley Labourer
Ellen SIVITER 18 S Canal Side Father Mark Siviter Collier
Samuel Hadley X Ann Richards X

and

25 Dec 1863 St Paul Smethwick
William HADLEY 34 B Bricklayer The Quinton Father Thomas Hadley Labourer
Harriet TAYLOR 34 S West Smethwick Father Thomas Southearde??(The Last letters squashed in box) Butcher
Wit; Thomas Hackett X Mary Roberts

if they do Mark pls can you add the above to BCC save wasting the info
if they are no use just say and we can start them as a new thread

could this be samuel born 1831 ?

[MarkCDodd]

Samuel as the father helps a lot.

Let me sort it out and I will update BCC later today.

[MarkCDodd]

I have decided I have no idea who this man is and who his parents are.

Nothing makes sense and I can't even narrow down his birth year or place.

This is what each census entry says and his birth year and place.

Wedding in 1863 1842
1871 Census 1841 Warley Wigorn, Worcestershire
1881 Census 1847 Oldbury, Worcestershire
1891 Census 1835 Oldbury, Worcestershire
1901 Census 1832 Smethwick, Staffordshire
1911 Census 1838 Halesowen, Staffordshire

If we look for him before the marriage there is this one family that sort of fits.

1851

Address: Scotch Row, Harborne
County: Worcestershire

HADLEY, Samuel Head Married M 35 1816 Pentecticker In Glass Works Oldbury Worcestershire
HADLEY, Mary Wife Married F 36 1815 Nailsea Somerset
HADLEY, William Son M 12 1839 Laborer At Glass Works Smethwick Staffordshire
HADLEY, Elizabeth Daughter F 10 1841 Smethwick Staffordshire
HADLEY, Thomas Son M 8 1843 Scholar Smethwick Staffordshire
HADLEY, Samuel Son M 0 (9 MOS) 1851 Smethwick Staffordshire
PYE, Edward Brother-In-Law Unmarried M 22 1829 Glass Gatherer Nailsea Somerset

1861

Address: George Street, Harborne
County: Worcestershire

HADLEY, Samuel Head Married M 46 1815 Crown Glass Maker Stafford Smethwick
HADLEY, Mary Ann Wife Married F 47 1814 Nailsea Somerset
HADLEY, William Son Unmarried M 22 1839 Shut Glass Maker Stafford Smethwick
HADLEY, Thomas Son Unmarried M 18 1843 Shut Glass Maker Stafford Smethwick
HADLEY, Samuel Son M 10 1851 Assistant Glass Maker Stafford Smethwick
HADLEY, Frederick Son M 8 1853 Scholar Stafford Smethwick
HADLEY, Alfred Son M 5 1856 Scholar Stafford Smethwick
HADLEY, Clara Daughter F 2 1859 Stafford Smethwick


Smethwick is 7 miles from Halesowen/Warley Wigorn.

I have great difficulty accepting the same person switching between the two as place of birth.