*Arc tbc* --Ultimate brick wall - 'David Davies'

[amy]

I am stuck on the most common of common names!!!

My 6th generation great grandfather David DAVIES was born in Eglwysbach, Caernarvonshire, Wales in abt 1801.

The 1881 census has him at 80 years old :
RG: 11 Piece: 5534 Folio: 86 Page: 3
Reg. District: Llanwrst
Sub District: Llanwrst
Parish: Llanwrst
Address: Tu Hwnt Ir Afon, Llanwrst
County: Denbighshire

Name: DAVIES, David
Relation: Head
Condition: Married
Sex: M
Age: 80
Birth year: 1801
Occupation, Disability: Cooper
Where Born: Eglwysbach, Caernarvonshire, Wales

Name: DAVIES, John
Relation: Son
Condition: Single
Sex: M
Age: 19
Birth year: 1862
Occupation, Disability:
Where Born: Llanwrst, Denbighshire, Wales

but I cant find records of him in ANY other census. His son was Reverend Robert Davies born in 1824 but no idea where and according to that 1881 census he has a second son John Davies born around 1862, 40 YEARS after his first son?? Maybe a new virile wife who was 'out' on census night??

I have found Robert Davies' marriage certificate which gave me his fathers name in the first place and searching any other census gives me pages and pages of "David Davies". Because I dont know where his first son was born it makes it difficult to guess where he was married to do a parish register lookup, unless you assume he stayed in his home town (which is dangerous and potentially futile). I also have no clue of his wifes name.

Does anyone have any suggestions of where I can go with this? Some lines of my family tree i have unconfirmed ancestry to 1510! but this line has me totally stumped.

Frustrated in australia,

Amy from Perth, WA

[peterd]

1881 Tu hwnt Ir Afon Llanrwst, Denbigh, Wales


David DAVIES Head M Male 80 Eglwysbach, Caernarvon, Wales Cooper
John DAVIES Son U Male 19 LLanrwst, Denbigh, Wales Joiner


think its the same house

1881 Tu Hwnt Ir Afon Llanrwst, Denbigh, Wales

Hugh JONES Head M Male 32 LLanrwst, Denbigh, Wales Slatequarry Man
Eleanor JONES Wife M Female 28 Llanrwst, Denbigh, Wales Quarrymans Wife
Evan JONES Son U Male 8 m Llanrwst, Denbigh, Wales


Marriages Sep 1878

Jones Eleanor Llanrwst 11b 458
Jones Hugh Llanrwst 11b 458

[peterd]

where did you obtain your info on robert and what do you have ?

[amy]

Regarding Robert Davies I have a hard copy of his marriage certificate dated May 2 1855 to Mary Owen at The Parish Church, Llanwrst, Denbighshire, Wales which details his fathers name and profession (which is how i found him in the 1881 census). I am lucky enough to also have photos of Robert and Mary from my great aunt.

For anyone interested one of Robert and Mary's sons, Reverend Robert Owen Davies went on to have an outstanding career as a clergyman, the details of which were written in a short biography as follows and passed down to me:

Rev. Robert Owen Davies D. I., LL.D., D.C.L.
Rector of Kettleburgh, Suffolk since 1887.
Vicar of Brandeston by Archbishop's dispensation since 1910.
Surrogate for the Diocese of Suffolk.
Born - Llanwrst, N. Wales, 18th August 1857 o.c. of late Robert Davies of Talybond, Llanrwst, and Glasfryn, Conway, and Mary (d.1901), daughter of Cadwaladr Owen of Talybont.
Married - 1882 Edith Emma, daughter of Rev. Dr. Dunn (my BC rellies), Rector and Patron of Ruan Lanihorn, Cornwall.
Children - 4 sons and 2 daughters.
Education
Llanrwst Grammar School - head boy and captain of school.
Jesus College, Oxford - B.A. Honours in Theology, 1881.
M.A. 1886
B.D. 1889
D.D. 1893
Trinity College, Dublin - M.A., 2nd on LL.B. exam list 1890.
Bracketed 1st. on LL.D. exam list 1890.
Durham - D.D. and D.C.L. 1902
Fellow examiner and Member of the Council of the Society of Science 1885-90.
Gold medalist 1886.
Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society 1883-88.
Fellow of the Royal Society for Literature 1890-1905.
Odained - 1881
Priest - 1882
Curate of Thorney Abbey, 1881-83
St. James, Birkenhead, 1883-85
Senior Curate and Precentor of St. Mary, Newington, Londin, S.E. 1885-87.
Temporary Chaplain of Christ Church, Paris, 1902.
Priest in Charge of Gibraltar Cathedral, 1908 & 1909.
Chaplain of the Plemsgate Union since 1889.
Past Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of England Mark Master Masons.
Great Prelate of the Great Priory of England, Knights Templer.
Great Prelate of the Great Priory of Knights of St. John of Jerusalem (Malta).
Recreations - Omnivorous reading, chess, music and masonry.
Address - Bradeston Vicarage, Wickham Market Suffolk.
Died - 7th January 1929

I also have newspaper articles from this mans death which I find so interesting.

Amy

[peterd]

have you any census of robert with mary and robert jrn and who were the witnesses on marriage cert ?

[amy]

I dont have any census for Robert and Mary because the names are so common but i have '81 and '91 for Robert Jnr. I dont have a subscription, got all my census when findmypast did a special month free last year, so I havent looked since around July last year.

Robert and Mary's marriage certificate has witnesses Owen Lloyd Davies and Ellen Jones. The certificate shows Roberts father as David Davies - Clockmaker.

[FarSide]

Any help
1861
Can't read addy, on same page Little Bridge Street, Llanrwst
Robert Davies 37 - Gardner & Seed dealer - b Flint, Flintshire
Mary Davies 42 - b Llanrwst, Denbighshire
Robert B (O) Davies 3 - b Llanrwst, Denbighshire
Mary A Jarrett 15 - House servant - b Llanrwst, Denbighshire

don't see them on the 71

[FarSide]

Poss Witness on their marriage, maybe helpful

1871
Bodlyfrdd?, Llanfyllin
Owen Davies 37 - Weslyan minister - b Eglwys-Fach, Denbighshire
Sarah D Davies 30 - b Liverpool
John H Davies 6 - b Rhyl, Flintshire
Percy G Davies 5 - b Dolgelley, Merionethshire
Owen M Davies 3 - b Ruthin, Denbighshire
Mary Worthington 13 - Servant - b Llanfyllin, Montgomeryshire

1881
Wesley Place, Holywell, Flintshire
Owen Lloyd Davies 49 - Wesleyan Metht Minister - b Eglwysbach, Denbighshire
Sarah Ann Davies 40 - b Lpool, Lancashire
John Lloyd Davies 16 - b Rhyl, Flintshire
Trevor Hughes Davies 9 - b Llanfyllin, Montgomeryshire
Edwd. Lloyd Davies 7 - b Abergele, Denbighshire
Arnold Davies 5 - b Abergele, Denbighshire

[FarSide]

Poss
Extracted
OWEN DAVIES
Birth: 15 JUL 1833
Christening: 02 AUG 1833 Wesleyan, Llanrwst Circuit, Denbigh, Wales
Parents:
Father: DAVID DAVIES
Mother: LOWRY

[peterd]

submitted

OWEN LLOYD DAVIES
Christening: 19 FEB 1830 St Asaph, Eglwys-Fach, Denbigh, Wales

JOHN DAVIES
PHEBE DAVIES

poss owen brother

JOHN LLOYD DAVIES
Christening: 08 DEC 1824 St Asaph, Eglwys-Fach, Denbigh, Wales


Father: JOHN DAVIES
Mother: PHEBE LLOYD



Could john and david be brothers ?

[FarSide]

That was my thought too, haven't found them altogether on the census yet

[dianel]

Dunno ... is this your Robert Owen Davies?
1871
At Kyffdy, Llanrwst, Denbighshire
Robert Owen Davies Head 39 Landowner b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Mary Anne Davies Wife 38 b. Denbighshire, Wrexham
Alice Louisa Davies Daur 9 Scholarb. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Eliza Jane Flint Sister in law Unm 34 b. Denbighshire, Wrexham
Mary Louisa Wilson Governess 25 Governess b. Lancashire, Liverpool
Ellen Jones Servant 20 Cook b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Mary Roberts Servant 19 Housemaid b. Denbighshire, Llangerniew
David Jones Servant 20 Domestic Servant b. Denbighshire, Llangerniew

[dianel]

How about this one?

1851
At Cyffely, Llanrwst, Part of Tybrith Isaf
George Davies Head Unm. 62 Landowner of 60 acres employing 5 labourers b. Flintshire, Mold
Elizabeth Davies Sister Unm. 52 b. Flintshire, Mold
Robert Owen Davies Nephew Unm. 20 Late scholar b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Cadwaladr Jones Servant Unm. 23 Farm Servant b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
David Roberts Servant Unm. 55 Farm Servant b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
David Davies Servant Unm. 45 Dairy Man b. Caernavonshire,
Richard Jones Servant Unm. 14 Errand Boy b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Ellen Williams Servant Unm. 56 House Keeper b. Denbighshire, Eglwystbach
Jane Williams Servant Wid. 54 Assistant b. Caernavonshire, Bangor
Margaret Evans Servant Unm. 21 Dairy Man b. Denbighshire, Yspyty

Previous entry:
At Carneddau, Llanrwst
David Davies Head Mar 48 Cooper b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Ellinor Davies Wife 25 b. Denbighshire, Yspyty
Hugh Davies Son 2 b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Catherine Davies Daur 1 b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Margaret Roberts Serv. 12 General Servant b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst

[peterd]

that looks good di but somat nagging me that 1861 look correct for robert jrn but his parents age and place of birth are different ?

[peterd]

so this is what we have

How about this one?

1851 At Cyffely, Llanrwst, Part of Tybrith Isaf

George Davies Head Unm. 62 Landowner of 60 acres employing 5 labourers b. Flintshire, Mold
Elizabeth Davies Sister Unm. 52 b. Flintshire, Mold
Robert Owen Davies Nephew Unm. 20 Late scholar b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Cadwaladr Jones Servant Unm. 23 Farm Servant b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
David Roberts Servant Unm. 55 Farm Servant b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
David Davies Servant Unm. 45 Dairy Man b. Caernavonshire,
Richard Jones Servant Unm. 14 Errand Boy b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Ellen Williams Servant Unm. 56 House Keeper b. Denbighshire, Eglwystbach
Jane Williams Servant Wid. 54 Assistant b. Caernavonshire, Bangor
Margaret Evans Servant Unm. 21 Dairy Man b. Denbighshire, Yspyty


Previous entry:

1851 At Carneddau, Llanrwst

David Davies Head Mar 48 Cooper b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Ellinor Davies Wife 25 b. Denbighshire, Yspyty
Hugh Davies Son 2 b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Catherine Davies Daur 1 b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Margaret Roberts Serv. 12 General Servant b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst

Any help

1861 Can't read addy, on same page Little Bridge Street, Llanrwst

Robert Davies 37 - Gardner & Seed dealer - b Flint, Flintshire
Mary Davies 42 - b Llanrwst, Denbighshire
Robert B (O) Davies 3 - b Llanrwst, Denbighshire
Mary A Jarrett 15 - House servant - b Llanrwst, Denbighshire

don't see them on the 71

Dunno ... is this your Robert Owen Davies?

1871 At Kyffdy, Llanrwst, Denbighshire

Robert Owen Davies Head 39 Landowner b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Mary Anne Davies Wife 38 b. Denbighshire, Wrexham
Alice Louisa Davies Daur 9 Scholarb. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Eliza Jane Flint Sister in law Unm 34 b. Denbighshire, Wrexham
Mary Louisa Wilson Governess 25 Governess b. Lancashire, Liverpool
Ellen Jones Servant 20 Cook b. Denbighshire, Llanrwst
Mary Roberts Servant 19 Housemaid b. Denbighshire, Llangerniew
David Jones Servant 20 Domestic Servant b. Denbighshire, Llangerniew