A Proper Newbie

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Murphilator
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A Proper Newbie

Post by Murphilator »

[color=#000080] Hello All - I hope you're well and staying safe :grin:

I am completely, totally, brand-spanking new to Geneaology and I'm hoping to learn lots from you guys.

I'm from Newcastle upon Tyne and I've started looking for the Maternal side of the fam for my Mum; I don't have any relatives left past my Mum so I've got no-one to ask or grill about the relatives.

I located who I believe to be my Mum's Grandparents but having ordered their wedding certificate I'm a bit perplexed. It doesn't name the church which I was thinking it should - we're only going back to 1911 here - and the witnesses appear to be different to the names I was expecting from the Ancestry entry. Does this mean they're not the droids I'm looking for? Oops, I mean are they not the people I'm looking for? :?

There's 4 names in the Ancestry entry so excluding the newlyweds I'm presuming the other 2 are the witnesses?

Many thanks,
Murphilator[/color]
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peterd
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by peterd »

Hi Murphilator, Welcome to the forum
A person should have an opinion on everything, It becomes tact whether you reveal that opinion or not.

http://www.deneview.co.uk/
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gardener
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by gardener »

Murphilator wrote:Hello All -

There's 4 names in the Ancestry entry so excluding the newlyweds I'm presuming the other 2 are the witnesses?

Many thanks,
Murphilator


Hi and welcome!

Someone will probably move this to a different bit of the site because the powers-that-be like to keep welcomes and questions seperate!

But, ignoring that for now...

when you say the Ancestry entry, do you mean the index entry where you found the marriage in 1911, and then you sent off for the certificate?

For wedding earlier than 1912 the index shows the surnames of two couples, in a block of four because two marriages were entered on each page of the registry. So my guess is that the other two names are for the other couple who got married around the same time.

From 1912 onwards they link the bride and groom together in the index, but before that you can't actually tell who married who just from the index. And some earlier records have up to 4 couples per page!

I'm not sure what you mean by "It doesn't name the church which I was thinking it should". No church would be named if it was a registry office marriage. But do you mean that it is a different, unexpected church?

I don't know where you are starting from. You have your mother's birth details? So have her parents' names and her father's occupation? The marriage certificate matches that?
"The present is the key to the past" - Charles Lyell
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Murphilator
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by Murphilator »

Hi and thank you for your speedy reply.

The marriage certificate states "marriage solemnised at" and gives "the parish church" in writing. The line beneath that one, "district of" has a line through it and has "parish of byker" written. Nowhere on the certificate does it give the name of the church. It gives a Vicars name so my conclusion was that it was definitely a church ceremony.

The line saying "married in the" has "parish church according to the rites and ceremonies of the ecclesiastical church" written and where is says "by" [which is crossed out] it says "after banns" again leading me to believe it was a church affair.

The other names, that I'm presuming aren't necessarily family, are written on the line "in the presence of us," so my guess was that they were the witnesses but their names don't match the other 2 names on the entry on ancestry.co.uk.

I'm pretty confident that I've got the correct family members & certificate and I want to update the entry in our ancestry.co.uk account but I can't make it match.

Sorry if this is all a bit nonsensical, this is my first real snag and it's got me stumped. If I can't get past this I'm not hopeful for a successful hunt :oops: :lol:
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Murphilator
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by Murphilator »

peterd wrote:Hi Murphilator, Welcome to the forum


Thank you :grin:
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Northern Lass
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by Northern Lass »

moved to Gen Discussion.

Do you want to post the info you have and we can have a look?
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SRD
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by SRD »

Byker parish church is St Michael. Google is quite useful for looking these things up. Family search has quite a bit of info on it https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/By ... _Genealogy
Currently investigating the Hillmans of Sussex.
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gardener
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by gardener »

Hi

Yes, I had never really thought about it, but marriage certificates often just say Parish Church rather than the proper name for the church. And when I was a kid that was how the local churches were referred to. I think Catholic churches tend to get their full name though, and probably churches in urban situations where it might not be clear otherwise.

Byker seems to have begun as part of Newcastle All Saints https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/N ... /AllSaints and St Michael and All Angels was also known as the Parish Church according to this: http://www.stmartinsbyker.co.uk/st-martins-history.php

Does that make sense?

I still don't understand what you mean by
their names don't match the other 2 names on the entry on ancestry.co.uk.


What entry is that?
"The present is the key to the past" - Charles Lyell
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Murphilator
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by Murphilator »

Thank you all - you're fab :grin:

On the screenshot Thomas & Williamina are the relatives. The other 2 names I presumed were their witnesses. They're not the same names as the witnesses on the marriage certificate.
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Screenshot 2021-04-29 at 22.57.59.png
Screenshot 2021-04-29 at 22.57.59.png (53.07 KiB) Viewed 2965 times
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gardener
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by gardener »

It is like I explained above. The marriage index has two marriages on the same page. So these extra names are the couple married before or after your pair, and so nothing to do with the marriage in the certificate you bought :-)
"The present is the key to the past" - Charles Lyell
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SRD
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by SRD »

FreeBMD shows all of the index entries for that page:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1911 (>99%)
Edwards Williamina Newcastle T 10b 41 Scan available - click to view
Foster Thomas Newcastle T. 10b 41 Scan available - click to view
Johnson Edward Newcastle upon Tyne 10b 41 Scan available - click to view
SIMPSON Matilda Newcastle T. 10b 41 Scan available - click to view
Currently investigating the Hillmans of Sussex.
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Murphilator
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by Murphilator »

gardener wrote:It is like I explained above. The marriage index has two marriages on the same page. So these extra names are the couple married before or after your pair, and so nothing to do with the marriage in the certificate you bought :-)



Thank you - I'm sure I'll get the hang of this - have a safe and great weekend :grin:
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Murphilator
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by Murphilator »

SRD wrote:FreeBMD shows all of the index entries for that page:

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1911 (>99%)
Edwards Williamina Newcastle T 10b 41 Scan available - click to view
Foster Thomas Newcastle T. 10b 41 Scan available - click to view
Johnson Edward Newcastle upon Tyne 10b 41 Scan available - click to view
SIMPSON Matilda Newcastle T. 10b 41 Scan available - click to view



Thank you - have a safe and great weekend :grin:
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Murphilator
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Re: A Proper Newbie

Post by Murphilator »

Northern Lass wrote:moved to Gen Discussion.

Do you want to post the info you have and we can have a look?




Thank you
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