"Complete"Name change from Southall to Brookes

[mumbles]

How do I put this on Bcc
Paul Southall was baptised 10/12/1809 Father George Southall and mother Sarah
He then married as Paul Southall to Jane Phillips at St. Peter Wolverhampton on 6/3/1831

on 1841 Census Family are all Southall
1841 Census Lever House Wombourn Wolverhampton Staffs.
Paul Southall 31 Ag. Labourer
Jane Southall 31
Esther Southall 8
Mary Southall 3
Thomas Southall 1
All born Staffs.
Some of Peter and Jane's children are baptised as Southall and some are baptised as Brooks ( Noted on IGI as children of Peter Brooks or Southall and Jane

but in 1851 Census family are all Brooks

1851 Census Himley Village Tettenhall Wolverhampton Staffs.
Paul Brooks Head 41 Farm Labourer
Jane Brooks wife 41
William Brooks son 22 Gardener
Esther Brooks dau 18
Thomas Brooks son 11 Scholar
Helen Brooks dau 7 Scholar
Ann Brooks dau 2
Samuel George Brooks son 8mths.
All born Himley Staffs.

1851 Census Himley Village Tettenhall Wolverhampton Staffs.
Paul Brooks Head 41 Farm Labourer
Jane Brooks wife 41
William Brooks son 22 Gardener
Esther Brooks dau 18
Thomas Brooks son 11 Scholar
Helen Brooks dau 7 Scholar
Ann Brooks dau 2
Samuel George Brooks son 8mths.
All born Himley Staffs.

After 1841 Census family are all Brooks when marrying and I have Census records for family upto 1911

Why the change and do I put down as Southall or Brooks

[Northern Lass]

I would put as Southall with a note in notes

[mumbles]

Have gone back a few generations :
1841 Census 6 Lever House Wombourn Wolverhampton Staffs.
George Southall 54 Ag. Labourer
Sarah Southall 52
Thomas Southall 18 Ag. Labourer
Chas. Southall 16 Ag.labourer
Benjmn Southall 11
Two doors away from Paul Southall

George Southall was son of William Brookes born 1750 and Mary Southall born 1760

Thomas Southall born 1823 Himley married Esther Jordan but married as Thomas Brookes

[gardener]

Baptism for George

Name: George Brooks
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 23 Sep 1787
Baptism Place: Himley,Stafford,England
Father: William Brooks
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 0873650 IT 5, 435770

marriage for parents

spouse: William Brookes
Name William Brookes
Spouse's Name Mary Southall
Event Date 19 May 1787
Event Place Himley,Stafford,England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number M06171-1
System Origin England-ODM
GS Film number 0873650 IT 5

So George was baptised after the wedding but seems to have used both surnames. Perhaps he wasn't William's son?
If you put George down as Southall then I suppose you would have to have to decide when to switch to Brooks for the surname on the more recent records?
Paul was baptised, married and 1841 census as Southall; Brooks after that.
What about other kids of George's? Did they use Brooks too?

added: see you have Thomas using Brooks as his name when he married.

[mumbles]

Sorry Thomas used Southall for marriage and Brookes from then on

Only reason I have found before for name change was when a person changed name to his wife's surname to inherit under will by her father but that was a rich family ( on bcc) and these4 are gardeners and Ag. Labourers

[gardener]

I've seen lots of cases where an illegitimate child is listed by one surname in an early census and then a different one in later records.
The surname used in the census may be that of the head of the household who brought the child up, but then the other surname is used for a marriage certificate. Or after the head of household dies, as though the mother suddenly says "by the way..."

So here you have:

William Brookes married Mary Southall 19 May 1787

George baptised with surname Brooks 23 Sep 1787
George Southall married 13 October 1806 Sarah Bradley Himley,Stafford,England
Children baptised as Southall, then as Southall/Bradley

William 1 November 1807 George Southall + Sarah
Paul 10 December 1809 George Southall + Sarah
William 20 August 1815 George Southall + Sarah
Thomas 4 September 1822 George Southall or Brooks + Sarah
Charles 1 May 1825 George Southall or Brooks + Sarah
George 1 July 1827 George Southall or Brooks + Sarah
Benjamin 23 August 1829 George Southall or Brooks + Sarah

Paul Southall married Jane Phillips at St. Peter Wolverhampton on 6/3/1831
Paul's children baptised as Southall and Southall/Brooks, Paul used Southall in 1841 but Brooks in later census.

Thomas Southall married Esther Jordan, used Brookes afterwards.

The way I see it, George was baptised as Brooks after Mary Southall married William Brookes.

If George was William's son and born after they married then he would have been George Brooks. No reason to alternate the name.
If George was William's son but born before they married then I still don't see any reason for him to use the Southall surname.
If George was Mary Southall's son, born before her marriage but baptised with her husband's surname shortly after the marriage, then George may have grown up using the Brookes surname but when he married in 1806 it was known that he was illegitimate and he may therefore have married under his mother's maiden name. Then used that surname for a few years for baptisms and the 1841 census but mostly called George Brookes so reverted to that name for the census.

I suppose it is just possible that George was born after Mary Southall married but then I am sure he would simply have taken his new father's surname and used that in the future. I can't see any reason for this switching unless he was not William's son and was born before the marriage.

Incidentally, parish records show my grandfather baptised as a Rose, and his birth is registered as Rose, but his parents did not marry. He is in the 1901 census as Rose but the 1911 as Downs and he married with both names handily hyphenated. It seems to me that you probably have a similar situation here but in this case George's father is not known. It could have been William Brookes but that seems unlikely to me.

[mumbles]

Your theory is good but why do next generation i.e. Paul Brooks/Southall and Sarah Bradley children also sometimes use brooks and sometimes Southall ?

[mumbles]

Sorry gardener I meant Paul Brookes/Southall and Jane Phillips

Baptisms all Himley
Sarah Southall 1831 Paul Southall or Brooks & Jane
Esther Brooks 1833 Paul Brooks & Jane
Mary Southall 1835 Paul Southall or Brooks & Jane
Mary Southall 1838 Paul Southall or Brooks & Jane
Thomas Brooks 1839 Paul Brooks & Jane
John Southall 1841 (died 1842 Paul Southall and Jane
Ellen Southall 1843 Paul Southall or Brooks & Jane
Elizabeth Southall 1845 Paul Southall or Brooks & Jane
Ann Brooks 1848 Paul Brooks or Jane

No pattern as to when and why change to Brooks and back again to Southall i.e. no cut-off date

[mumbles]

Found link between Thomas Southall/Brookes who married Esther Jordan as Southall and then reverted to Brooks

His daughter Ann Brooks born 1844 is living with grandmother Sarah Southall/Brooks ( nee Bradley)
in 1841 and in same street as Paul Brooks / Southall and Thomas Brooks/Southall who married Esther Jordan
Note also found parents of Esther who lived in same row of Houses as Southall family in 1841 before they all changed to Brooks

1851 Census Himley Village Tettenhall Wolverhampton Staffs.
Sarah Brooks 62 (wid) Annuitant born Sedgley Staffs.
George Brooks son 23 Farm Labourer
Benjamin Brooks son 2 Farm Labourer
Ann Brooks grd.dau 7 Scholar
Rest born Himley Staffs.

[gardener]

Paul and Thomas are both the sons of George. George was known by/used both Southall and Brookes as his surname and it seems that his children did the same. That is why it is all mixed-up timewise. It is not a case of deciding to change a surname, they were both in use for a couple of generations.
It would be interesting to see the actual images for the Himley register and see how the two names are entered.

[mumbles]

Thanks gardener,
I will start adding with notes about family using both names

[mumbles]

OK to Archive all added with notes

[rockyfowler]

19 May 1787 St Michael Himley
William Brookes,p.of Sedgley,bach and
Mary Southall,wid.,this p.of Dudley
By License ,
Wit; C.Cartwright ,Jno. Waldron

[gardener]

That's interesting! So perhaps George was adopted by Mary's second husband (assuming that there was a first one). Wonder who Mr Southall was, and what Mary's maiden name was?

[mumbles]

Thanks RF I will amend