ARC TBC - Doubtfire family

[Kelly80]

OK. So I have a nice uncommon surname here to research. Easy peasy I hear you say, but, apparently somewhat elusive on census, BMD records etc.

Here is what I know on this branch of my family.

My mothers father was Leonard George Doubtfire, b.20 Jan 1931, 42 Harman Street, Shoreditch, London.
Leonard had two brothers, John W and James, and two sisters Shirley and Irene.
Their parents were John Doubtfire b. 10th July 1907, Shoreditch London and Mary Ann Elizabeth Challis, b.7th Nov 1908, Hackney.

John's father was also called John Doubtfire. He was born 2nd October 1884 in Islington. I have his marriage and birth certificate.
John married Ann Roylance on 7th October 1906 in St Anne's Church, Shoreditch. John senior is on the 1907 census living at 85 Hours St, Haggerston, Shoreditch and working as a general labourer.

John seniors father was Richard Doubtfire who was born 20th July 1849, at 4 Teale Street, Bethnal Green, London. I have Richards birth certificate.
Richard is on the 1861 census as an 11 year old boy working with his father at 'West Yard' as a labourer. They lived at Barton Court, Shoreditch. - very poor family I'm afraid, and all illiterate as they were signing certificates with the mark 'X'.
Richard married Harriet Hemmingway on 27th December 1870 at St James the Great Church, Bethnal Green.

Richards father was also Richard Doubtfire. I believe Richard senior was born about 1821 in St Lukes, Middlesex. I can't find a birth record for him or his parents names.
Richard senior married Sarah Earl (as shown on Richard juniors birth certificate). I have a possible death record for Richard senior as Vol.1c/pg.83 Apr/May/Jun 1881, Shoreditch.
I will order this certificate.

Richard and Sarah possibly had 6 children that I'm aware of. Richard Doubtfire (my ancestor) b.1849, Mary Ann Doubtfire b. 8th November 1857 Bethnal Green, Robert and William Doubtfire (twins) born 24th February 1864 in Shoreditch, Ann and Harriet Doubtfire (also twins) born 20th November 1870 in Hoxton. I can't be sure these are all from the same family as there is another Richard and Sarah Doubtfire living in the same area at that time, but that Sarah is a Sarah Tyler. So I need to try and find birth records for all of these children to either include them in the tree of discount them. I only have entries from a baptism record for them and that doesn't show the mothers maiden name unfortunately.

Mary Ann Doubtfire is 3 years old on the 1861 census return with Richard junior, Richard senior and mother Sarah. So that looks pretty solid.

I believe Sarah Earl was born about 1831 in Shoreditch, but I'm unsure.

Now I'm struggling to find any reference of Richard Doubtfire marrying Sarah Earl. I can't find many census returns for them at all (missing 1851, 1871, 1881, 1891), and I have no parent information, birth records, baptism records etc for them. I've hit a brick wall.
I have noticed that a lot of the census returns that do come up as Doubtfire (although not related as far as I can tell) are often misread and spelt wrong on the online record. This seems to be hindering my progress a lot.

Banging my head on the wall now. Help?!

[peterd]

Richard Doubtfire
Registration Year:1849
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Bethnal Green


1851 census might be around bethnal green area ?

[peterd]

Anne Doubtfire
birth: 20 November 1870
christening: 18 December 1870 SAINT JOHN THE BAPTIST,SHOREDITCH,LONDON,
father: Richard Doubtfire
mother: Sarah


Harriet Doubtfire
birth:20 November 1870
christening: 18 December 1870 SAINT JOHN THE BAPTIST,SHOREDITCH,LONDON,
father: Richard Doubtfire
mother: Sarah


William Doubtfire
birth: 24 February 1864
christening: 4 March 1864 SAINT LEONARDS,SHOREDITCH,LONDON,
father: Richard Doubtfire
mother: Sarah


Robert Doubtfire
birth: 24 February 1864
christening: 4 March 1864 SAINT LEONARDS,SHOREDITCH,LONDON,
father: Richard Doubtfire
mother: Sarah


Elizabeth Doutfire
birth:1 May 1869
christening: 23 May 1869 SAINT JOHN THE BAPTIST,SHOREDITCH,LONDON,
father: Richard Doutfire
mother: Sarah


Reuben Doutfier
birth 14 October 1866
christening: 4 November 1866 SAINT JOHN THE BAPTIST,SHOREDITCH,LONDON,

father:Richard Doutfier
mother: Sarah

[peterd]

where the kids are christend at will proberly be the parishes where they are living on the censuses

[Kelly80]

Thanks, you've uncovered some new possible children there that I hadn't come across before.

I've tried searching the 1851 census online with no luck finding any matches for this family.
How would I get hold of parish records if they are not online?
I've only been down to a records office once in the past looking for parish records in microfiche, but I failed miserably as I struggled to know where to start and wasn't familiar with how the documents were organised. I spent 3hrs there and got no further with my family history, I just found a lot of extra names that could be possible relatives but with no evidence to tie them in. Shame the records office staff weren't very helpful.

[Kelly80]

Ok, so I did a rather painstaking trawl of hundreds of entries for the census's in the Bethnal Green area using Richard juniors date of birth and his parents first names, no surname.

Low and behold entries popped up. So I now have Richard & Sarah Doubtfire with Richard Doubtfire (junior) on the 1851 census. They had been listed as 'Dentfire' (household:145,piece:1534,folio:231,pg.36). Richard (senior) is recorded as working as a Labourer, living at what looks like 6 Little Norfolk Place, Shoreditch. The family have an un-named infant boy that is 1 month old at the time. This son presumably died as he is not on the 1861 census.

I also found the family under various incorrect spellings of the surname on the 1871 and 1881 census. Annie and Harriet Doutbfire appear on the 1871 census, but Annie disappears by the 1881 census when she would have been 10 years old, so possibly died too?
There is no record of there being any other children so they may have all died too before the census was recorded, or not been part of this family unit.

I can't find Sarah Doubtfire on the 1891 census. I am not sure if she might have died or not by that point. She would have been a widow as Richard died in 1881, after the census date.

I also searched the 1841 census and found one entry that might be Richard (seniors) family. But I'd need more information to prove it one way or another. It's frustrating that the 1841 census doesn't hold relationship information, or place of birth information. This is the entry I found ...

Sarah Doudfire b. 1781c 60 year old Head
Elizabeth Doudfire b. 1814c 27 years old
Robert Doudfire b. 1819c 22 years old
Joseph Doudfire b. 1829c 12 years old
Richard Doudfire b. 1825c 15 years old
William Doudtfire b. 1821c 20 years old
Ann Doudfire b. 1819c 22 years old

I could draw all kinds of presumptions from this information. I'd guess that Sarah Doudfire is Richard and Joseph's Grandmother who is widowed. I assume Joseph and Richard are brothers. Elizabeth could be the older sister of Robert, William and Ann. We could assume Robert and Ann are twins (this runs in our family if you look). Who knows.

Lots to look at now ... but where to start? How to sort through these relationships on the 1841 census?

[Kelly80]

Still stuck with sorting out Richard Doubtfire b1821c.

However, lower down the tree (which is tragically sad reading), Richard's son, also Richard had 15 children of which only 4 survived him. Most died in thier first 8 years. Within this family my great great grandad John and two of his brother were sent to 'Virginia Road School' at a very young age (2-6 years).

My suspicion is that Virginia Road School was taking in very poor children when the families couldn't manage to feed them etc there selves. I have yet to find any proof of this though. Anyone have any information on boarding schools for the poor.
The eldest of the sons was transferred after a year to 'J.M' I have no idea what that stands for though.

[peterd]

Sarah Doudfire b. 1781c 60 year old Head
Elizabeth Doudfire b. 1814c 27 years old
Robert Doudfire b. 1819c 22 years old
Joseph Doudfire b. 1829c 12 years old
Richard Doudfire b. 1825c 15 years old
William Doudtfire b. 1821c 20 years old
Ann Doudfire b. 1819c 22 years old

well they were all born in Middlesex

lived coopers gardens, tower hamlets

Where born:Middlesex, England
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Hackney Road

so i would look for baptisms see who the father is ?

[peterd]

some of these might be the above if there marriage are on line you will get there father and sarah husband ?


Marriages Sep 1843
DOUBTFIRE William Hackney 3 120

Marriages Mar 1844
Doubtfire William Holborn 2 55

Marriages Jun 1844
DOUBTFIRE George Stepney 2 434

Marriages Sep 1844
DOUBTFIRE Elizabeth Stepney 2 501

Marriages Mar 1845
Doubtfire John Shoreditch 2 356


Marriages Sep 1849
Doubtfire John Bethnal Green 17
Doubtfire John Bethnal Green 27


Marriages Dec 1851
Doubtfire William Shoreditch 2 501

[peterd]

there another doubtfire family tower hamlets

1841 Ormsby rd, tower hamlets

James Doubtfere 59
Ann Doubtfere 57
Ann Culdow 27


poss sarah husband and john brother ?

[peterd]

looks like a poss mar


Henry Thomas Doubtfire
Spouse's Name: Sarah Price
Event Date: 10 Sep 1797
Event Place: Saint Leonards,Shoreditch,London,England


also a nancy married same place

Name: William Mincher
Spouse's Name: Nancy Doubtfire
Event Date: 13 Jan 1788
Event Place: Saint Leonards,Shoreditch,London,England

[peterd]

wonder if this is the son of henry thomas above and sarah but not with them on that 1841 census if its the same family ?

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Doubtfire-3


poss more info

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=584452.0

this guy might help you

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=371272.0

tribal page have a few might be worth contacting the london ones

http://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/ancest ... e&dy=&hu=1

[Kelly80]

Thanks for the info. I've now joined RootsChat in the hope that the guy there can help with my Doubtfire family research.

I'm not sure about Henry Thomas Doubtfire being an ancestor of mine. I think I need to find more before I can confirm if his wife Sarah is the same Sarah on the 1841 census that I have found, and if they are the grandparents of my ancestor Richard. I'm struggling to find the records to prove the links, but I won't give up.

I'm also struggling to make sense of Richard Doubtfire and his relationship with my Richard's mother Sarah Earl, and whether this is the same Richard that married Sarah Tyler. I can't find a birth record or a marriage record for Richard Doubtfire and Sarah Earl at the moment. I'm having terrible issues with transcription errors.

[peterd]

looks like a new members joined looking for doubtfire / london, surname / connection

[Kelly80]

If you mean mccalla1978, then that's my mothers cousin.