ARC TBC - Joseph harper & hannah clift

[peterd]

In turn, the Joseph who married Sarah Cox may be the Joseph who was bap in St John's Church on 15/4/1770 and may be the son of another Joseph who married Sarah Forest in St John's Halesowen on 5/10/1761. Joseph and Sarah Forest may have had at least a further 4 children, John (7/3/1762), Elizabeth 29/4/1764), James (5/4/1767) and Sarah (22/8/1773); all baptised in St Johns Church.

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =360524369

St Martin, Birmingham
5 April 1790
Joseph Harper of this parish, batchelor
Hannah Clift, X, of this parish, spinster
by Banns
Wit - Joshua Whitehouse, X and Mary Taylor, X

[peterd]

i also think this marriage connects to the above ?

23 Mar 1818
Thomas Harper, otp, bach
Hannah Hyron, X, otp, spin
by JT (Asst. Min)
Wit - Benjamin Taylor & Elizabeth Taylor, both signed X

kids

Day same 5 Mar 1826 Benjamin, s of Thomas & Hannah Harper, Rowley Regis, Carpenter



Thomas Taylor Harper Thomas Taylor, s of Thomas & Hannah Harper, Rowley Regis, Carpenter

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 5 March 1826 CRADLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
father: Thomas Harper
mother: Hannah



John Saml. Harper, John Sam Bate, s of Thomas & Hannah Harper, Rowley Regis, Carpenter

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 5 March 1826 CRADLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
father: Thomas Harper
mother: Hannah



Charles Harper Charles, s of Thomas & Hannah Harper, Rowley Regis, Carpenter

England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 26 December 1830 CRADLEY,WORCESTER,ENGLAND
father: Thomas Harper
mother: Hannah

[peterd]

1851 Club building, Rowley regis

Thomas Harper 64 Wheelwright, Kimberley, Shropshire
Ann Harper 52 Clent
Benjamin Harper 29 forge labourer, Cradley
John Harper 25 puddler of Iron, Rowley Regis
Charles Harper 20 puddler of Iron, Rowley Regis
David Harper 11 Rowley Regis



1861 cradley heath

Thomas Harper 74 wheelwright, Kemberton, Shropshire
Ann Harper 62 Cradley, Worcestershire
David Harper 21 forgeman, Rowley, Staffordshire



1871 furlong lane

David Harper 31 ironworker
Myra Harper 26
William Priest 60 father in law, nailmaker
Eliza Priest 5 niece
all born cradley


HARPER David PRIEST Myra 1864 Dudley, St Andrew West Midlands Dudley Register Office 205/003/181

[FarSide]

In turn, the Joseph who married Sarah Cox may be the Joseph who was bap in St John's Church on 15/4/1770 and may be the son of another Joseph who married Sarah Forest in St John's Halesowen on 5/10/1761. Joseph and Sarah Forest may have had at least a further 4 children, John (7/3/1762), Elizabeth 29/4/1764), James (5/4/1767) and Sarah (22/8/1773); all baptised in St Johns Church.

John (7/3/1762)

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/fa ... per-Family

Halesowen
John Harper, X, otp, bach
Rebecka Dillard, X, otp, spin
by JP (Curate)
Wit - Thos. Tibbits & Ann Tyson

Poss Burials Halesowen
18 Jun 1837, Rebecca Harper, 78, Cradley
16 Jun 1850, John Harper, 90, Cradley

James (5/4/1767)

Halesowen
James Harper, X, otp, bach
Leah Grigg, X, otp, spin
by WS (Vicar)
Wit - Moses Rose & Richard Fiddian

Poss Burials Halesowen
26 Jan 1851, James Harper, 85, Cradley
20 Aug 1843, Leah Harper, 74, Cradley

Likely parents of this Benjamin Harper
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/fa ... per-Family

[peterd]

1841 Colley gate

James Harper 70 lab
Leah Harper 70
James Harper 39 lab
all y in c



1851 colley orchard, Tays Lane Cradley

James Harper 52 single Ag lab cradley

1861 Tays Lane Cradley
Benjamin Harper Head Widr 56 Nailer
Thomas Harper Son 20 Nailer
Moses Harper Son 17 Nailer
Eli Harper Son 12 Nailer
Mary A Harper Daur 8 Scholar
William Southall Son in Law Boarder 30 Nailer
Matilda Southall Daur Boarder 27 Nailer
Caleb Southall Grandson Boarder 8 Scholar
Rhoda Southall Grand Daur Boarder 7 Scholar
William S Southall Grandson Boarder 5 Scholar
James Harper Brother Unm 58 Ag Lab All Born Cradley

poss same james looks good when and live with brother after father died

[peterd]

Halesowen
John Harper, X, otp, bach
Rebecka Dillard, X, otp, spin
by JP (Curate)
Wit - Thos. Tibbits & Ann Tyson

Poss Burials Halesowen
18 Jun 1837, Rebecca Harper, 78, Cradley
16 Jun 1850, John Harper, 90, Cradley

is samuel clift hannah brother & sister in law to john ?

is daniel related to mary grove who married joseph and hannah cliff son ?


1841 high town Cradley

John Harper 75 nailor
Samuel Clift 65 nailor
Daniel Grove 30 labourer


daniel grove on bcc

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... i=76158222

[peterd]

poss sibling to hannah cliff

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/fa ... ift-Family




Joseph Clift
Christening Date:26 Jan 1755 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Father's Name: James Clift
Mother's Name:Ann

System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number:886632, 886633, 886634



William Clift
Christening Date: 29 Jul 1750 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Father's Name: James Clift
Mother's Name: Ann

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01376-2
System Origin:England-ODM



Mary Clift
Christening Date: 24 Apr 1757 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Father's Name: James Clift
Mother's Name: Ann

System Origin:England-ODM
GS Film number:886632, 886633, 886634



Dorothy Clift
Christening Date:25 Dec 1751 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,
Death Date: 04 Mar 1752

Father's Name: James Clift
Mother's Name: Ann

System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 886632, 886633, 886634




Josiah Clift
Christening Date: 02 Nov 1766 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Father's Name: James Clift
Mother's Name: Ann

System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number: 886632, 886633, 886634

[peterd]

james first marriage to dorothy (kids)

Samuel Clift
Christening Date: 26 Mar 1744 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Father's Name: James Clift
Mother's Name: Dorothy


System Origin: England-ODM
GS Film number :886632, 886633, 886634



James Clift
Christening Date:18 Jan 1740 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Father's Name: James Clift
Mother's Name: Dorothy

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01376-2
System Origin: England-ODM



Thomas Clift
Christening Date: 13 Oct 1738 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Father's Name:James Clift
Mother's Name: Dorothy

System Origin:England-ODM
GS Film number:886632, 886633, 886634

[FarSide]

There is a lot of work gone into this family on this site..
http://familytrees.genopro.com/harrycaper/FamilyTree/

Part of the will from the above site of James Clift..

First I give and bequeath unto my daughter Mary Taylor five pounds (to be left in the hands of my daughter Hannah Harper) to be paid to her at eighteen pence each and every week from the time of my decease. And as to the rest and residue of my personal estate and effects of what kind or nature soever I give and bequeath unto and amongst all and every my child and children (namely) Thomas Clift, James Clift, William Clift, Hannah Harper and Josiah Clift to be divided to and amongst them share and share alike my said son Josiah Clift to pay out of his share two pounds eleven shillings and eight pence to my said daughter Hannah Harper. And my will and desire is that my son in law Joseph Harper and my daughter Hannah Harper shall have the use of all my stock of cattle and all other my personal property for the term of twelve months from my decease. And after the said term of twelve months then to be sold and the monies arising therefrom to be equally divided as aforesaid share and share alike.

St Martin, Birmingham
5 April 1790
Joseph Harper of this parish, batchelor
Hannah Clift, X, of this parish, spinster
by Banns
Wit - Joshua Whitehouse, X and Mary Taylor, X

[peterd]

looks like them baps are ok for ann and dorothy kids


so mary must of married a taylor before 1790

[nailer2011]

Hi All,

This thread and your deliberations are fascinating but are you sure that the marriage of Joseph and Hannah in St Martin's Birmingham relates to the son of Joseph Harper and Sarah Forest . The parish record does not provide anything other than their name.

The family tree on the web provides a plausible story (which I want to believe) as I have a direct interest in Joseph's brother, James (who I think married Leah Griggs) .

Your observations support the Harper/Clift link but do we have to assume the parentage of Joseph on the circumstantial evidence of the marriage and baptisms in St John's Church, Halesowen (that do look to be correct)

H

[peterd]

we know this is correct as james is tracable although age is out in 1851 and marriage and deaths fit (ages rounded down in 1841)

11 Jan 1794 Halesowen,Worcester,

James Harper, X, otp, bach
Leah Grigg, X, otp, spin
by WS (Vicar)
Wit - Moses Rose & Richard Fiddian


1841 Colley gate

James Harper 70 lab
Leah Harper 70
James Harper 39 lab
all y in c


Poss Burials Halesowen
26 Jan 1851, James Harper, 85, Cradley
20 Aug 1843, Leah Harper, 74, Cradley


1851 colley orchard, Tays Lane Cradley

James Harper 52 single Ag lab cradley



1861 Tays Lane Cradley
Benjamin Harper Head Widr 56 Nailer
Thomas Harper Son 20 Nailer
Moses Harper Son 17 Nailer
Eli Harper Son 12 Nailer
Mary A Harper Daur 8 Scholar
William Southall Son in Law Boarder 30 Nailer
Matilda Southall Daur Boarder 27 Nailer
Caleb Southall Grandson Boarder 8 Scholar
Rhoda Southall Grand Daur Boarder 7 Scholar
William S Southall Grandson Boarder 5 Scholar
James Harper Brother Unm 58 Ag Lab All Born Cradley



poss same james looks good when and live with brother after father died

so benjamin here

bcc

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/fa ... per-Family

[nailer2011]

Jan,

This is the link which Peter et al have been following, to which I referred.

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/fa ... ift-Family

H.

[peterd]

poss kids of james and leah married jan 1794





Elizabeth Harper
christening: 14 September 1794 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

father: James Harper
mother:Leah



Ruth Harper
christening: 25 December 1795 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

father: James Harper
mother:Leah


Hannah Harper
christening: 18 March 1798 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

father: James Harper
mother:Leah



William Harper
christening: 4 May 1800 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

father: James Harper
mother:Leah



Move to cradley area between these christenings ?



James Harper
christening: 30 January 1803 CRADLEY,WORCESTER,

father: James Harper
mother:Leah



Benjamin Harper
christening: 8 March 1805 CRADLEY,WORCESTER,

father: James Harper
mother:Leah



Ann Louisa Harper
christening: 2 April 1809 CRADLEY,WORCESTER,

father: James Harper
mother:Leah

[peterd]

marriage

5 Oct 1761 Halesowen,Worcester

Joseph Harper, X, otp, bach
Sarah Forest, X, otp, spin
by PW (Vicar)
Wit - William Tay & Joseph Chandler


halesowen bap for joseph and sarah (forest or cox)


John Harper
7 March 1762 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Elizabeth Harper
29 April 1764 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

James Harper
5 April 1767 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Joseph Harper
15 April 1770 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Sarah Harper
22 August 1773 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,



all the above we can Asume with some degree of certianty belong to joseph and sarah forrest as the other didnt marry till 1795 and all the ones below belong to joseph and sarah cox as if sarah forrest married at 18 (poss earlier) in 1795 she would be 52 ( if thomas 1795 was hers) more like shot gun wedding for sarah cox

11 Jun 1794 Clent
Joseph Harper, X, bach, of the Parish of Rowley Regis
Sarah Cox, X, spr, ots
by Banns
Wit - Joseph Bloomer & Robt Waldron

Thomas Harper
15 February 1795 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Joseph Harper
18 March 1798 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Sarah Harper
27 September 1801 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Elizabeth Harper
20 May 1804 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Mary Ann Harper
2 March 1806 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Benjn. Harper
26 June 1808 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Lucy Harper
26 June 1814 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,