ARC TBC - Missing Great Grandfather - Liverpool

[snowgirl]

Hello, I've got a longterm brick wall which I'm hoping someone can help me with!

Essentially, the person listed as my grandmother's father on her birth certificate cannot be her father as it appears that he died 11 years before she was born...

My grandmother was born Frances Leak in 1927 in Toxteth Park, Liverpool - mother was Euphemia Leak (formerly Walter, but potentially also listed as Clifford or Simpson), and father listed as James Leak. I have never been able to find a death certificate for James Leak, but have found his war records which show that he was killed in the Somme in September 1916 - definitely the right person as his effects are signed for by Euphemia. James & Euphemia married in Toxteth in 1908, and are listed as the parents of 7 children, only two of which were actually born before he died, but a further five born between 1918 and 1929 (including my grandmother) still have him listed as their father.

I can't find a record of another marriage for Euphemia (thinking that there was an outside chance she married another James Leak!), and know that none of my grandmother's generation would ever mention their father so no-one in the family has any clues.

My thinking at the moment is that she didn't register James' death (not sure if it was the responsibility of next of kin to still do this officially if someone was killed in the war??), and stayed in some kind of denial about who the father/s of the remaining children were! Does anyone have any idea as to whether this is likely to be the case, and any suggestions as to how I might go about finding out who the actual father was? (other than waiting to see if the 1921 census has any clues which is all I have at the moment!)

Thanks

Romy

[peterd]

birth certs have an address on for the person who register the birth check the electrol register for males at that address see if the same person keeps croping up ?

[AndrewA]

It is not uncommon to find widows giving birth to children and keeping pretence that thier father was her late husband.

I have one relation who had 3 children after death of husband, one you could argue was genuinely the product of the deceased, but the other two were not. It is not a co-incidence she lived with a widower whom she married some years later.

With your relation, do not think its so much to do with denial of the death, remember being unmarried and pregnant was a huge social disgrace, the humiliation of recording a child as illegitimate was equally bad.

There are several explinations, some not so nice, but certainly it could be she was someones mistress or other long term relationship with another man, did she re-marry at any point?

Another explanation is not so nice to think about, especially closer relative, is prostitution. A widow with children, no or little income, what is she to do?

What was her character like? Ladette is a term we associate with culture of today, but certainly during the first world war many women behaved in the same manner, especially those who were employed in factories replacing men, drinking too much after work, smoking in public, wearing trousers and sleeping around and so on. This behaviour was such a concern that it was debated in parliament with calls to restrict women's access to public houses and the amount they could be served and how to curb these other disgraceful behaviours.

[snoopysue]

Another point to consider is, that if the mother was married to the father, no proof was required. But if the mother wanted to name a man she wasn't matrried to, as the father, he would have to admit that it was his child.
My gr gr grandmother had three children before she married my gr gr grandfather, but she was using his name, as though they were already married - no-one seemed to have questioned this. Proof of marriage wasn't required, only that you said you were married to the father!!
As has already been mentioned, illegitimacy was stigmatised - and the women concerned were looked down upon. Your relative may have been trying to protect her children - they then had "proof" that their "father" was dead - this maybe would have helped them later in life. Although the older children must have known what was going on, it probably was never talked of.

[gardener]

My daughter (un-jaded by genealogical research) suggested that Mrs Leak had had the foresight to freeze hubbie's sperm and that you had uncovered a case of early IVF

[AndrewA]

Time travel. She discovered a portal that took her back 20 years into the past.

[rogerneilson]

Is this finished?

[BC Wench]

Is this still a Brickwall, or have you solved it?
Unless otherwise advised this will be moved to the Brickwalls Archived section
within 24 hours