Completed - Need help with RAY in Yorkshire

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YorksClare
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Completed - Need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by YorksClare »

Okay, guys. You were so good at helping me get past my inaugural brick wall that I have been going great guns with my own family tree. So much so that now my partner Tim's Gran (aged either 92 or 93, though counting is past relevant at this point!) is keen to find out more about their side of the family. She has a phenomenal memory for her direct family, which means all I am really doing is pinning down exact dates, filling in the names of distant uncles when she can only remember six out of seven, and collating the references to chase up physically if I ever get the chance.

Well I didn't want to leave her husband out of the thing, because he is an interesting person and doesn't always get a word in edgeways, so I started researching his side too. The problem is that there is one name with such promise - in other words, it should stand out a mile! - and yet it isn't getting me as far as I had hoped. It is Victor Henry John William Ray. Tim's Grandad's father. I know he was born in 1896 in the registration district of Hemsworth, close to Pontefract. He married a girl called Isabella Clark in Pontefract and that's about as far as it goes - most of the rest is history still in living memory. (Grandad's memory is pretty sharp too, and if I get the chance to speak to him properly it is wonderful to hear his recollections.)

So far I have two possibilities. Either a Thomas Ray was Victor's father, and he either married a Mary Ann Atack (my partner thinks this name should ring a bell more than the alternatives for either possible father) or a Harriet Hopwood (deemed most unlikely; sounds rather too posh). The problem is that on the http://www.freebmd.org two couples show up under the entry with no indication as to who was with whom!

Alternatively, George Ray was Victor's father, and he similarly either married a Susannah Vickers Maugham (c.f. comment about Harriet Hopwood) or a Sarah Ann Wilson. Same reason as to why there are two possible mothers...

I'm sure if some kind person can help me past this obstacle, there should be a clearer path to getting the chart moving again. Please could someone see if I have just not turned the genealogical Rubik's cube through the correct sequence? :?
Last edited by YorksClare on Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by gardener »

Hi
there is this lot in 1901

George Ray 46 Stafford Litchfield York W R Thorpe Audlin Coachman Domestic
Sarah Ann Ray 43 Yorks Ackworth York W R Thorpe Audlin
Georgeina Ray 12 Yorks Wentbridge York W R Thorpe Audlin Juvenile
Ruth Ray 10 Yorks Wentbridge York W R Thorpe Audlin Juvenile
Victor Ray 5 Yorks Wentbridge York W R Thorpe Audlin Juvenile

Thorpe Audlin is in the right registration district for Hemsworth

Could that be the right family? Wentbridge seems to be about a mile from Thorpe Audlin.
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by gardener »

The marriage for Thomas Ray is this one

1880
RAY Thomas ATACK Mary A St Oswald, Methley Leeds CE107/A/311

(http://www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk gives the paired names for some Yorkshire marriages)

Anyhow, based on the census I think Sarah Ann Wilson is worth a second look

Marriages Mar 1876
Desborough John Hemsworth 9c 159
Maugham Susannah Vickers Hemsworth 9c 159
Ray George Hemsworth 9c 159
Wilson Sarah Ann Hemsworth 9c 159
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by gardener »

Name: George Ray
Age (Original): 27
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1854
Birthplace: Lichfield, Staffordshire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coachman
Address: Cottage (In Wentbridge)
Event Place: Thorp-Audlin, Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Disability:
Record Type: Household
GS Film number: 1342109
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 4597 / 72
Page Number: 10
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head George Ray M 27 Lichfield, Staffordshire, England
Wife Sarah Ann Ray F 25 Ackworth, Yorkshire, England
Daughter Alice Ray F 1 Badsworth, Yorkshire, England

You should be able to go back based on that.
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by rockyfowler »

11 May 1880 St Oswalds Methley York
Thomas RAY 22 B Miner Methley Father Thomas Ray Miner
Mary Ann ATACK 19 S Methley Father Jesse Atack Miner
After Banns Both Signed
Wit; Joseph Atack X /Elizabeth Missty
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by rockyfowler »

12 Jul 1876 St Cuthbert Ackworth
George RAY 22 B Groom Ackworth Father George Ray Coachman
Sarah Ann WLISON 21 S Ackworth Father Joseph Wilson Labourer
After Banns George Signed The X Of Sarah
Wit; Frederick Harrison / Mary --croft?
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by rockyfowler »

Victor H Ray married Clara Firth
Name: RAY, Victor H
Registration district: Pontefract
County: Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1921
Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's last name Firth
Volume no: 9C
Page no: 219
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by YorksClare »

Hi Rocky

Sorry I got Victor's wife wrong - I already knew that. I read the wrong line of my notes while I was typing! That's a fantastic amount of detail yet again. Thank you.

I suppose what should clinch it is whether there is an entry for Victor in the 1901 census or the 1911 census, which is what I have been unable to find so far. Then the George versus Thomas argument should be easily settled.
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by rockyfowler »

1901
RAY, George Head Married M 46 1855 Coachman Domestic
Litchfield, Staffordshire
RAY, Sarah Ann Wife Married F 43 1858
Ackworth, Yorkshire
RAY, Georgeina Daughter F 12 1889
Wentbridge, Yorkshire
RAY, Ruth Daughter F 10 1891
Wentbridge, Yorkshire
RAY, Victor Son M 5 1896
Wentbridge, Yorkshire
BENDALL, Albert Boarder M 17 1884 Groom Domestic
Sherburn, Dorsetshire

Blue Bell Inn, Thorp Audlin, Thorpe Audlin
Yorkshire (West riding)

1911
RAY, George Head Married M 60 1851 Coachman Domestic Lichfield Staffs
RAY, Sarah Ann Wife Married 36 years F 56 1855 Ackworth Yorks
RAY, Georging Daughter Single F 21 1890 Wentbridge Yorks
RAY, Victor Son Single M 14 1897 Wentbridge Yorks
WHITE, Lillian Grandchild Single F 10 1901 Shafton Yorks
7 Children born and still alive

Wentbridge Pontefract
Yorkshire (West riding)
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YorksClare
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by YorksClare »

Thank you again!

Brilliant. Tim thought that the groom's job was correct, but we were not aware of the link to Staffordshire. So that is a really interesting connection to follow up.

I didn't recognise the villages at first when gardener posted, so I will go look them all up in google maps and see where they turn out to be. The entries in the LDS with Pontefract, Whitley and others were more readily recognisable as being around the area where much of the family still lives, which is why I was a bit suspicious of Wentbridge and Thorpe Audlin.

How great to see "Blue Bell Inn"! I think we'll have to go there - it still exists! http://www.bluebellwentbridge.co.uk/ :grin: And now I've googled it and seen that the village is immediately south of Ponte, all is clear. One very happy beginner genealogist here.
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by YorksClare »

Right. I've cross-checked as much as possible with the BMDs to get links to documents where I can for all the things everyone helped me with, which is great.

However, in searching through the BMDs I could not find a Georgina for that family. There is Alice (correct from the info you all found), Frances Sarah, Emily, Rose, Ellen and Ruth Mary. This matches up with the oral history of the family.

Also, now that you have shown me which census Rays to follow up I have found the same ones (in less detail) on LDS. The intriguing bit is that the family seems to drop off the radar for 1871 and 1891. The second of these makes it difficult for me to properly cross-check the freeBMD information. Does this gap appear elsewhere, or is it just a case of the transcribers not having got around to it yet?

Finally there is a new family mystery! I'm not asking for help on this bit, (at least, not yet!) but I want to say thank you for this new piece of interest. The 1911 census has a grand-daughter living with George and Sarah Ann, called Lilian White. I am now trying to track down which of the girls it was who had this little girl, to try to find out why she was living with her grandparents instead of her birth parents.
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by rockyfowler »

Name: RAY, Ellen
Registration district: Hemsworth
County: Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1889
Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3
Volume no:9C
Page no:149



Baptised
3 Feb 1889 Luke and All Saints Dorrington
Georgina Ellen Daur of George & Sarah Ann RAY , Westbridge ,Coachman

19 Apr 1915 Luke and All Saints Dorrington
Herbert Parnell 25 B Groom East Hardwick Father William Parnell Inn Keeper
Georgina Ellenor RAY 26 S Wentbridge Father George Ray Coachman
Wit; George Ray / Ruth Ray

PARNELL, Georgina Helenor
Registration district: Huddersfield
County: Yorkshire
Year of registration: 1980
Quarter of registration: Apr-May-Jun
Date of Birth:25 December 1888
Volume no: 4
Page no: 1592
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by rockyfowler »

1891
WRAY, George Head Married M 40 1851 Couchman Domestic Servant
Yorkshire
WRAY, Sarah Ann Wife Married F 38 1853
Ackworth, Yorkshire
WRAY, Alice Daughter F 11 1880 Scholar
Wentbridge, Yorkshire
WRAY, Frances Daughter F 9 1882 Scholar
Wentbridge, Yorkshire
WRAY, Maud Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar
Wentbridge, Yorkshire
WRAY, Rose Daughter F 4 1887
Wentbridge, Yorkshire
WESTERMAN, Fred Boarder Single M 18 1873 Groom Domestic Servant
East Hardurick, Yorkshire

Cottage, Thorpe Audlin, Wentbridge

Yorkshire (West Riding)

1861
RAY, George Head Married M 33 1828 Groom
Lichfield, Staffordshire
RAY, Sarah Wife Married F 29 1832 Grooms Wife
Lichfield, Staffordshire
RAY, George Son Unmarried M 6 1855 Scholar
Lichfield, Staffordshire
RAY, Saml Daughter Unmarried F 3 1858
Wergs, Staffordshire
RAY, Frank Son Unmarried M 0 (UNDER1M) 1861
Nottingham, Staffordshire
The Pushley Lodge, The Lloyd Cottages, Lower Penn

Staffordshire

1871
RAY, George Head Coachman M 38 1833 Tamworth Staffordshire
RAY, Sarah Wife F 38 1833 Lichfield Staffordshire
RAY, Sarah Daughter F 13 1858 Wolverhampton Staffordshire
RAY, Frank Son M 10 1861 Pattingham Staffordshire
May Field Place, Ruswarp
Yorkshire

30 Jan 1854 St Martin Birmingham
George RAY 24 B Coachman Moor St Father William Ray Post Boy
Sarah TURNER 22 S Moor St Father John Turner Labourer
After Banns Both Signed
Wit; Thomas Bevan / Sarah Qwing?


Baptism
23 Jul 1854 St Chad Lichfield
George Son of George and Sarah RAY ,Servant , Cross In Hand
Last edited by rockyfowler on Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by gardener »

YorksClare wrote:
Also, now that you have shown me which census Rays to follow up I have found the same ones (in less detail) on LDS. The intriguing bit is that the family seems to drop off the radar for 1871 and 1891. The second of these makes it difficult for me to properly cross-check the freeBMD information. Does this gap appear elsewhere, or is it just a case of the transcribers not having got around to it yet?


The spelling variation works for 1871 census too (Family Search)

Name: George Wray
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 17
Relationship to Head of Household: Boarder
Birthplace: Lichfield
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Leeds
Sub-District: Chapeltown
Parish: Chapel Allerton
County: Yorkshire (West Riding)
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Re: I got suckered - need help with RAY in Yorkshire

Post by YorksClare »

Thank you both! :thumbup:

I need to be more lateral in the way I search for things, clearly. That's two classic problems in one small family sample - a person who uses several different iterations of her name, and a returns officer who cannot spell properly. :roll:

I had thought that the searches would have found Wray when searching for Ray, because so much other random stuff turns up. And usually the first names would not have been a problem because I speculatively search for marriages using surnames, though without a spouse surname I would have been posting yet another brick wall... :oops:

Interesting that George Wray was boarding in Chapel Allerton in Leeds. That's fairly near where my partner lives now. If that is the right relative then it makes everything feel so much more connected.
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