Can anyone help find Joseph Redding born abt 1858 ARC TBC?

[tinamoo1]

Hi All,

I am trying to find information on my great, great grandad Joseph Redding. The only information I have is his occupation which was Land Steward. He was married to Mary born 1858 Stanley, County Queens, Ireland. She died 1914 in Warrington, Lancashire. They had one son Joseph who was born 1880 in Dublin, Ireland & died in the First World War 13th July 1915. In 1881 I cannot find Joseph (snr) or Mary but I can find their son Joseph aged 1 living with Eleanor Swann and family in Cambridge. I cannot find any connection between the Swanns and Reddings. In 1891 Joseph (jnr) was living with his aunt and uncle Elizabeth & Thomas Ray who later for some reason changed their surname to Southern. Elizabeth Ray/Southern is Mary's sister and I was hoping that maybe this would help me find Mary's maiden name. I cannot find a marriage record for Elizabeth & Thomas.

I have found a Mary Riddin who I am as sure as I can be is Mary Redding in 1891 living as a cook in Cambridge at this time she is listed as a widow.

I am convinced that Joseph (snr) died around 1880 but obviously it is at any point between then and 1991. I think that this is why Joseph was with a different family in 1881.

Anyhow that is all the information that I have and I am at a brick wall so if anyone can help or point me in the right direction I would be really grateful.

[MarkCDodd]

Name: Thomas Redding
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 19 Jul 1880
Birth Place: Balleen, Kilkenny, Ireland
Father's Name: Joseph Redding
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Bachelor
FHL Film Number: 256060

Name: Joseph Redding
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1879
Registration district: Abbeyleix
Volume: 3
Page: 253 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101253

Name: Mary Bachelor
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1879
Registration district: Abbeyleix
Volume: 3
Page: 253 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101253

[MarkCDodd]

1881 census transcription details for: 58, Coronation St, Cambridge St Andrew The Less

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 1667
Folio: 84
Page: 17
Reg. District: Cambridge
Sub District: St Andrew the Less
Parish: Cambridge St Andrew the Less
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 58, Coronation St, Cambridge St Andrew The Less
County: Cambridgeshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SWANN, Elinor Head Widow F 38 1843 Toy Shop Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
SWANN, Robert H Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
DANIEL, Frank Son Single M 9 1872 Scholar Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
SWANN, Elinor A Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar Cambridge, Cambridgeshire
SWANN, Edward W Son Single M 5 1876 Scholar London Islington St. Mary's, London, Middlesex
REDDING, Joseph Visitor Single M 1 1880 Dublin, Ireland

No connection to Bachelor

I wonder if I can find his school records in Lancashire?

1891 census transcription details for: 8, Derby Street, Newton
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 3070
Folio: 101
Page: 45
Reg. District: Warrington
Sub District: Newton in Makerfield
Parish: Newton
Enum. District: 7
Ecclesiastical District: St Peters
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 8, Derby Street, Newton
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
RAY, Thomas Head Married M 22 1869 Striker Liverpool, Lancashire
RAY, Eliza Wife Married F 25 1866 Ireland
REDDING, Joseph Nephew M 12 1879 Scholar Ireland

[MarkCDodd]

The Joseph Redding who died in WW1 was married with three children. He puts his birth year as 1885 on enlistment. He married a Minnie Chandler at the Registration Office in Warrington on the 31st December 1910.

He puts his next of kin as Mrs R? Southern, his Aunt and Guardian, 30 Back Market (Marker) Rd, Earlstone.

[MarkCDodd]

Here he is with mum and wife and kids (first was illegitimate) in 1911. Seems he fibbed on his enlistment about his age.

1911 census transcription details for: 27 Grafton Street Earlestown Lancashire

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN23109 RG78PN1350 RD459 SD1 ED8 SN126
Reg. District: Warrington
Sub District: Newton in Makerfield
Parish: Newton in Makerfield
Enum. District: 8
Address: 27 Grafton Street Earlestown Lancashire
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
REDDING, Joseph Head Married M 31 1880 Blacksmiths Striker Dulbin Resident
REDDING, Minnie Wife Married F 24 1887 Earlestown Lancs
REDDING, James Son M 2 1909 Earlestown Lancs
REDDING, Florence Mabel Daughter F 0 (2 MONTH) 1911 Earlestown Lancs
REDDING, Mary Mother Widow F 53 1858 Queens Co Atky Resident

[MarkCDodd]

Aha....next of kin was Aunt Southern as his wife Minnie was in a lunatic asylum in 1914....

The Army could not get Minnie to sing the required paperwork upon his death and the Officer says she is obviously deranged and asks that her Guardian be allowed to sign the form.

Mrs. Southern refused to sign because she thought the pension would go to Minnie and not her to help with the three children.....

She did not believe the assurances from the Army.

The pension was first given to Minnnie but then directed to Mr.s Joseph Southern.

Joseph was shot with an explosive bullet behind the right ear at 1:15 AM when working in a Communications Trench during the battle of Ypres. He died in the nursing station soon after. He was buried in the grounds of the local asylum....

Mrs Southern was still trying to find his final resting place as late as July 1920...

[MarkCDodd]

1911 census transcription details for: 14 Peel Street Earlestown Lancashire

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN23109 RG78PN1350 RD459 SD1 ED8 SN342
Reg. District: Warrington
Sub District: Newton in Makerfield
Parish: Newton in Makerfield
Enum. District: 8
Address: 14 Peel Street Earlestown Lancashire
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
SOUTHERN, Thomas Head Married M 43 1868 Blacksmiths Striker Woolton Liverpool
SOUTHERN, Elizabeth Wife Married 22 years F 44 1867 House Duties Queens County Ireland Resident

That makes their marriage about 1889....

[Jimmy]

1901. Grafton St, Newton in Makerfield, Lancashire.
Thomas Southern 32. Blacksmiths striker. Much Woolton, Lancashire.
Elizabeth Southern 32. Queen County N, Ireland.

House before,
Mary Redding 46. Wid. Retired Cook. Ireland.
Joseph Redding 21. Son. General labourer. Ireland.

1891. 8 Darby St,
Thomas Ray 22. Smith striker. Liverpool.
Eliza Ray 25. Ireland.
Joseph Redding 12. Nephew. Ireland.

Possible marriage,

All Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958.
Leah Benjamin. Oct-Nov-Dec 1888. Dublin South.
Elizabeth Josephine Fitzsimon. Oct-Nov-Dec 1888. Dublin South.
Joseph William Keely. Oct-Nov-Dec 1888. Dublin South.
Henry Rudolph MacGowan. Oct-Nov-Dec 1888. Dublin South.
Elizabeth Moore. Oct-Nov-Dec 1888. Dublin South.
Amelia Powell. Oct-Nov-Dec 1888. Dublin South.
Bernard Robinson. Oct-Nov-Dec 1888. Dublin South.
Thomas Southern. Oct-Nov-Dec 1888. Dublin South.

[tinamoo1]

Thank you so much for this information. There are lots of bits of information here that is new to me. It is funny that Joseph lied about his age on his enlistment form because his so James (my grandad) did exactly the same thing. Could I ask how you got hold of Josephs war records? I have only been able to get hold of his basic information: name, service number & date of death.

I just wish I could find Joseph's and Mary's marriage certificate as it might get me a bit further & give me more information on Joseph (snr).

[Jimmy]

1911 census says married under a year,

Poss,
Marriages Dec 1910.
Chandler Minnie. Warrington. 8c. 352.
Hall Malinda. Warrington. 8c. 352.
Redding Joseph. Warrington. 8c. 352.
Williams Ernest A. Warrington. 8c. 352.

[Jimmy]

Name: Thomas Redding
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 19 Jul 1880
Birth Place: Balleen, Kilkenny, Ireland
Father's Name: Joseph Redding
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Bachelor
FHL Film Number: 256060

Name: Joseph Redding
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1879
Registration district: Abbeyleix
Volume: 3
Page: 253 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101253

Name: Mary Bachelor
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1879
Registration district: Abbeyleix
Volume: 3
Page: 253 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101253

This marriage Mark posted looks good, but its in Ireland,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbeyleix

[tinamoo1]

Name: Thomas Redding
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 19 Jul 1880
Birth Place: Balleen, Kilkenny, Ireland
Father's Name: Joseph Redding
Mother's Name: Mary Jane Bachelor
FHL Film Number: 256060

Name: Joseph Redding
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1879
Registration district: Abbeyleix
Volume: 3
Page: 253 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101253

His name was definately Joseph though? I am going to see if there is a Elizabeth Bachelor (Mary's sister) and also see if there is a birth record for Mary Jane Bachelor and see if any information marries up.
Name: Mary Bachelor
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1879
Registration district: Abbeyleix
Volume: 3
Page: 253 (click to see others on page)
FHL Film Number: 101253

This marriage Mark posted looks good, but its in Ireland,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbeyleix

[tinamoo1]

Unfortunately the information of the Thomas Redding does not marry up with other information I have.

Could you tell me where I can get the war record information about Joseph Redding? I have looked up his records before but it only provided me with his name, rank, date and place of death. The information that was posted earlier I found very interesting and wondered if there is more detail? I am a bit confused about who the J Southern is. Elizabeth's husband as stated before is Thomas. Could the Joseph Southern be a mistake?

[MarkCDodd]

Ancestry has about 40 pages of his war record.. All the correspondence between Aunt Southern, Minnie etc.

Send me a P.M with your e-mail address and I will send yo the record.

I can't see why these are not his parents?

I would suggest you search for the Church record and spend a few euro.

http://www.rootsireland.ie/

There is no reason why they would not get married in Ireland. One or the other family would wish to marriage to be undertaken in their family parish.

You have to realise that depending on their political bent, many Irish denied being born in Ireland or changed the county they claim they come from.

A claim of being from Dublin is nowhere near proof that is their actual place of origin.

[tinamoo1]

I have sent you a PM with my email address regarding the war records.

The reasons I do not think that Mary Bachelor and Joseph Redding are the relatives that I am looking for is mainly because the child is Thomas and not Joseph. I have also had a search to see if I could find an Elizabeth Bachelor who was Mary's sister but can't find one with the information that would make it the right Elizabeth.

I do not mind spending money on the marriage record. Given that you are obviously very experienced could you tell me why in your opinion these could be his parents? Is it just the area and birth years? Could there be a reason that he is registered as Thomas and not Joseph?

Many thanks for all you help and hard work in helping me so far. I am very grateful that you took the time and trouble.