ARC - Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy--Sp1 adding

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sp1
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ARC - Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy--Sp1 adding

Post by sp1 »

This Thomas Shakespeare on BCC:
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/fa ... are-Family

Jimmy - do you have the death cert or burial details to confirm age/ year of birth?

It looks as though Thomas is one of the following three, all bapt at Brierley Hill:
17 Nov 1805 son of Joseph & Mary
11 May 1806 son of Benjamin & Sarah
8 March 1807 son of James & Ann (nee Scriven)

I know it is a dangerous assumption to make, but because of the occurence of the name Issachar (this sometimes appears as Hezekiah) among both families I am inclined to think that this particular Thomas is the son of Joseph & Mary. Also note that Thomas's first two children were Mary & Joseph (I am seeing a biblical theme!!)

The following children of Joseph & Mary were all bapt at Brierley Hill, although Joseph seems to have lived in Netherton: the last two bapts give Netherton as address, and Thomas as a miner/collier:
11 March 1803 Elizabeth
17 Nov 1805 Thomas
27 Dec 1807 Sarah
13 May 1810 Phoebe
22 May 1814 Anna Maria
18 July 1816 Issachar - this Issachar went on to marry and have children, which I have details of: he married Ann Morgan 26 Aug 1839 at Old Swinford - this would be worth looking up to check witnesses.I have not traced marriages of any of the other children with any certainty.
Last edited by sp1 on Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by sp1 »

Joseph Shakespeare & Mary Higgs were married 2 May 1803, St Thomas, Dudley:
Joseph Shakespeare, Dudley, bachelor, and Mary Higgs, Dudley, spinster.
Both made X, witness: Thomas Higgs
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by Jimmy »

Hi Steve, sorry I missed you last night, thanks for your pm.

I have always thought this is the right family by the names of children.

JOSEPH SHAKESPEARE 1782.
MARY HIGGS
Elizabeth 1804.
Thomas 1805.
Sarah 1807.
Phoebe 1810.
Mary Ann 1812.
Joseph abt 1813.
Anna Maria 1814.
Isachar 1816.
John 1818.
Emma 1820
Benjamin ??? 1827.

Thomas and family.
THOMAS SHAKESPEARE. ABT 1805.
HANNAH MULLETT. 1805.
Mary 1825.
Joseph 1827.
John 1830.
Elizabeth 1832.
Isaachar 1834.
Thomas 1836.
Hannah 1838.
Mary Ann. 1840
Phebe 1843.
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by sp1 »

I'll have a look and see if I have anything which rules out the other two Thomas's, but I think it looks like this family as well.
Where did you get 1782 for Joseph's birth? - he is another problem as there are about 6 of them born within a few years: prior to that it's easy!!
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by Jimmy »

Steve I don't have any certs, only some for my Grandfather John Shakespeare. probably got the 1782 from these census.

I have thought for a while that this is Joseph and Mary.

1841. Lower Lye, Oldswinford, Worcs.
Joseph Shakespeare. 59. Office Clerk.
Mary. 54. n.b.i.c.

1851. Netherton, Hill, or Hall, or House.
Joseph Shakespear. 69. Widow. Colliery Clerk. Dudley.
Sarah Shakespear. 29. Niece. Unm. Servant. Dudley.
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by rockyfowler »

26 Aug 1839 St Mary Oldswinford
Issachar SHAKESPEARE F B Miner Stourbridge Father Joseph Shakespeare Miner
Ann MORGAN M S Dress Maker Stourbridge Father Evan Morgan Stock Taker
After Banns Issachar Signed The X Of Ann
Wit; Absolom Burton Eliza Burton X
“As I learned from growing up, you don’t mess with your grandmother.” — Prince William
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by sp1 »

Jimmy wrote:Steve I don't have any certs, only some for my Grandfather John Shakespeare. probably got the 1782 from these census.

I have thought for a while that this is Joseph and Mary.

1841. Lower Lye, Oldswinford, Worcs.
Joseph Shakespeare. 59. Office Clerk.
Mary. 54. n.b.i.c.

1851. Netherton, Hill, or Hall, or House.
Joseph Shakespear. 69. Widow. Colliery Clerk. Dudley.
Sarah Shakespear. 29. Niece. Unm. Servant. Dudley.

That Joseph on Netherton Hill is a different one - he is son of Enoch: they are on BCC can rule them out
Last edited by sp1 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by sp1 »

rockyfowler wrote:26 Aug 1839 St Mary Oldswinford
Issachar SHAKESPEARE F B Miner Stourbridge Father Joseph Shakespeare Miner
Ann MORGAN M S Dress Maker Stourbridge Father Evan Morgan Stock Taker
After Banns Issachar Signed The X Of Ann
Wit; Absolom Burton Eliza Burton X

Thank RF - unfortunately witnesses don't help at moment ( will have a look for them) but Ann's father ties in with one of the children who was Joseph Evan Shakespeare
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by Jimmy »

This is why I gave up before 1800.

This could be witnesses.

Absalom Burton.
Bride's Name: Eliza Harris.
Marriage Date: 11 Sep 1836.
Marriage Place: Dudley, Worcester.
Groom's Marital Status: Single.
Bride's Marital Status: Single.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M02048-4.
System Origin: England-EASy.
Source Film Number: 350611.
Reference Number: Pg 272 No 815.
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by rockyfowler »

11 Sep 1836 St Thomas Dudley
Absalom BURTON Of this Parish Bachelor
Eliza HARRIS Of this Parish Spinster
After Banns Absalom Signed The X Of Eliza
Wit; Sarah Harris X John Allen
“As I learned from growing up, you don’t mess with your grandmother.” — Prince William
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by Northern Lass »

Jimmy wrote:Steve I don't have any certs, only some for my Grandfather John Shakespeare. probably got the 1782 from these census.

I have thought for a while that this is Joseph and Mary.

1841. Lower Lye, Oldswinford, Worcs.
Joseph Shakespeare. 59. Office Clerk.
Mary. 54. n.b.i.c.

1851. Netherton, Hill, or Hall, or House.
Joseph Shakespear. 69. Widow. Colliery Clerk. Dudley.
Sarah Shakespear. 29. Niece. Unm. Servant. Dudley.


Why can't it be this one?
This is a Joseph and Mary.
On Bcc the one with father Enoch is married to an Ann
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... onnections

is the one above with Mary on Bcc at all?
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by Northern Lass »

I cant see Issachar already on Bcc

do we add Joseph and Mary in as parents for Thomas?
Then we can add in Issachar?
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by Jimmy »

rockyfowler wrote:26 Aug 1839 St Mary Oldswinford
Issachar SHAKESPEARE F B Miner Stourbridge Father Joseph Shakespeare Miner
Ann MORGAN M S Dress Maker Stourbridge Father Evan Morgan Stock Taker
After Banns Issachar Signed The X Of Ann
Wit; Absolom Burton Eliza Burton X


1841. Darby Hand, Ddley, Worcs.
Isaacher Shakespear 25. Coal miner.
Anne Shakespear 70. n.b.i.c. 2O on image.
Joseph Shakespear 1.
Joseph Kenrick 20.
James Boden 30.
John Boden 8.
David Evans 30.
Ann Evans 15.
James Rowland 45.
Hannah Nichols 45.
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by Jimmy »

The only one I can see under any spelling,

Issacher Shakespeare.
Baptism/Christening Date: 18 Aug 1816.
Baptism/Christening Place: Brierley Hill, Stafford.
Father's Name: Jos. Shakespeare.
Mother's Name: Mary Shakespeare.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03015-5.
System Origin: England-EASy.
Source Film Number: 1470582.
Reference Number: item 3 p 100.
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Re: Thomas Shakespeare - for Mathsgirl & Jimmy

Post by sp1 »

Northern Lass wrote:
Jimmy wrote:Steve I don't have any certs, only some for my Grandfather John Shakespeare. probably got the 1782 from these census.

I have thought for a while that this is Joseph and Mary.

1841. Lower Lye, Oldswinford, Worcs.
Joseph Shakespeare. 59. Office Clerk.
Mary. 54. n.b.i.c.

1851. Netherton, Hill, or Hall, or House.
Joseph Shakespear. 69. Widow. Colliery Clerk. Dudley.
Sarah Shakespear. 29. Niece. Unm. Servant. Dudley.


Why can't it be this one?
This is a Joseph and Mary.
On Bcc the one with father Enoch is married to an Ann
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... onnections

is the one above with Mary on Bcc at all?

The Lye one could be them - I meant the Netherton Hill one isn't: he is the son of Enoch.
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