Private 12182 William James Taylor 12th BN KRRC

[RichardKendall84]

Here is a picture of my Great Grand fathers' brother on my mothers side.
Will Taylor served with the 12th Battalion Kings Royal Rifle Corps and was injured on the 23rd of March 1918, and died a few days later on the 26th of March.
However..... this is where it gets difficult.
I have Williams' medals and "Death Penny", and information of his grave site. He died the rank of Private. The picture below clearly shows the 3 stripes of a Sergent.
Now, i am aware that the record office which held the records for Privates, Lance Jacks and Full Screws was bombed in WW2 by those blinkin' Jerry's., destroying alot, but the ones that were not had alot of water damage.But i am told, that Sergents and Officers records were held in a different location.
The whole family want to know why it was he "lost" his stripes, and is there a way of finding out? I did send an email to the KRRC mueseum and few years back, but they were not very helpful at the time.

[MarkCDodd]

They look like Lance Corporal stripes to me.

He could have been an acting Lance Corporal and not permanently promoted.

[MarkCDodd]

His medal card does not list any promotions.

If he was a permanent Lance Corporal it would be listed.

[RichardKendall84]

Oh right. I did 4 years myself, and never saw any lance jacks with 3 stripes!? Was it different back then or something? His medal card also states he earned the 1915 star, but the actual medal he has was the 1914/15 star, so thats a discrepancy. I also didnt think a medal roll card would list a demotion? Take for instance, if he had been promoted in say 1916, but then punched a senior rank on the conk, and got demoted to private again, would that much information be on a medal roll card? On the back of the picture, it says "royal engineers ?".So another theory is what if he was in the RE as a seargent, did somethibg bad, got kicked out and put in a line regiment?

[MarkCDodd]

It is definately not a Sergeant's insignia!!

It is only two chevrons, not three.

Dependent on the regiment, a Lance Corporal can have one or two chevrons.

All corporals have two chevrons.

From Wickipedia.

Corporal

Sergeant

It is very common for people to count the stripes, not the chevrons, especially on the black and white photographs.

Permanent appointments are usually mentioned on the medal cards but not always.

Since he entered his first theater of war on the 21st July 1915 he was eligable for the 14-15 Star.

The clerical error is not uncommmon.

You can view the actual medal rolls at Kew. They sometime have additional information than what is listed on the medal card.

If was in the in Royal Engineers he would have another regimental number listed or there may be a secondary medal card.

[MarkCDodd]

There is a William J Taylor in the Royal Engineers also killed in April 1918.

He was K.I.A on the 17th. Regimental Number 51037.

There are twenty three Willaim J Taylor who served in the Royal Engineers if you feel like trolling through their medal cards....

[MarkCDodd]

Royal Engineer Lance Corporals (second corporals) only used a single chevron until 1920.

Currently, Lance Corporals in the Foot Guards, Honourable Artillery Company, 1st The Queen's Dragoon Guards and The Queen's Royal Hussars wear two-bar chevrons and in the Household Cavalry a two-bar chevron surmounted by the crown.

I remember reading that the Kings Rifles also used two bar chevrons during WW1 but I can't find my reference.

I would say he is a full corporal.

[peterd]

It is definately not a Sergeant's insignia!!

It is only two chevrons, not three.

Dependent on the regiment, a Lance Corporal can have one or two chevrons.

All corporals have two chevrons.

From Wickipedia.

Corporal

Sergeant

It is very common for people to count the stripes, not the chevrons, especially on the black and white photographs.

Permanent appointments are usually mentioned on the medal cards but not always.

Since he entered his first theater of war on the 21st July 1915 he was eligable for the 14-15 Star.

The clerical error is not uncommmon.

You can view the actual medal rolls at Kew. They sometime have additional information than what is listed on the medal card.

If was in the in Royal Engineers he would have another regimental number listed or there may be a secondary medal card.

to me it looks like 3 chevrons (white) and the edge green is blending in with the uniform ?

[MarkCDodd]

You may be correct....

Here is another sergeant from WW1



And another from the R.F.A.



So I will go and eat some humble pie.....

It is good to be wrong sometimes but just don't tell my wife!

[RichardKendall84]

Hahaha. Fair play mate.
Thanks for your help.

Where do you think i could find his service record. Do you think i should try the regimental museum again?

[MarkCDodd]

Look in the National archives to see who holds the Regimental War Diary. His injury or death may be mentioned in that.

Any court marshall should also be mentioned.

The minimum you will get from the diary is the battle and/or action where he was injured.

As far as I know Kew has all the Medal Roles. Worth looking at to see if any additional information is held.

If Ancestry doesn't have his war record then it doesn't exist. I just looked and could not see it.

[SRD]

These People may be able to help.

[feral-underclass]

i have seen men in the war diary listed as acting sgt being wounded and when i checked their medal index card they are listed as pte.

[MarkCDodd]

That is correct. The medal cards occasionally mention an acting rank (i.e the Soldier was acting corporal when they first entered the theatre of war).

But the war diaries are oftent heo nly place tof ind out if the soldiers record was destroyed.

[RichardKendall84]

i have seen men in the war diary listed as acting sgt being wounded and when i checked their medal index card they are listed as pte.

Thanks alot!
I shall check the war diary then! I have his index card, and it states private.