ARC TBC - Samuel Smith query

[nailer2011]

have not got all my thoughts together yet but your responses prompts me to add that my interest, Samuel Smith, is the one that married (Elizabeth) Betsy GAZE in St Thomas Church, Dudley on 17 April 1853. Also, assuming he is the Samuel (widower) shown in the 1851 census living with a Benjamin Smith, then he was married previously.

I have the marriage certificate for Samuel and Betsy, which I will send to Jan when I get back to UK. His father is shown as William Smith, nailer-deceased.

So we have Mary and Samuel with a father, William, tying up with the William who married Ruth Green and we have Emma with a father George. Like you I think this is George Jeptha.
There is a George Jeptha who was s of William and Mary (Cradley about 1808)
Halesowen records have a marriage of a William Jeptha to Mary SMITH in 1806.

Thre is a burial of a William Smith in St Giles garveyard in, I think, 1829.

There is another daughter, Anne, born abouit 1848 and any details of her might help .

One inconsistency is taht Mary's father, William, is described as a Collier but Samuel's as a Nailer!


Hope this is helpful...H

[Northern Lass]

How do we know that this Samuel Smith is the one with mother Ruth Green?

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =125641899


diff occup as you say nailer for Samuel
Collier for Mary

13 Apr 1846 St Giles Rowley Regis
Solomon Stephens- 19- bach- labourer- of Garretts Lane s of John a labourer
Mary Smith- 22- sp- nailer of Garretts lane d of William a Collier
by banns
Wit- John Tromans / Ann Tromans


17 April 1853 St Thomas Dudley
Samuel Smith full bach miner Dudley William Smith dead nailer
Elizabeth Gaze minor spinster Dudley James Gaze dead miner
banns
X both
Wit- X Sarah Ann Fellows/ X John Powers

not convinced same Samuel

[nailer2011]

Jan,
I accept that my conclusions are based on circumstantial evidence but:
The SMITH family of Ruth in the 1841 census is the only one found that fits the circumstances. eg the mother is a widow.
Samuel and Betsy originally lived in Rowley Regis went to Pontycymmer, South Wales circa 1887 and some of the children of Emma and Issachar, Thomas and Henry, can be found there also in later census records.

samuel died in South Wales in 1902, aged 73 years. DOB 1829, corresponding with burial of a William Smith in St Giles, as earlier mentioned.

If someone can find a record of the birth/christening of Samuel all could be resolved

H.

[Northern Lass]

I have split this off

so the query is is this samuel smith married to Elizabeth Gaze
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =869557941

the same Samuel Smith who has mother Ruth Green and a father William Smith
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =774655670


1841. Garratts Lane.
Ruth Smith. 34. nail m.
Mary Smith. 15.
Samuel Smith. 10.
Emma Smith. 5.
Leah Green. 25. nail m.
William Green. 8.
Elizabeth Green. 3.

is this him in 1861?...names of kids no Ruth there

1861 Elbow Street Rowley Regis
Samuel Smith Head Mar 32 Coal Miner Born Rowley
Elizabeth Smith Wife 27 Born Tewkesbury
Eliza Smith Daur 7 Scholar Born Rowley Regis
Anthony Smith Son 3 Born Rowley Regis
Martha Smith Daur 7 MO Born Rowley Regis


Where is Samuel Smith on 1851
on marriage to elizabeth gaze he is a bach

not convinced same one .....

any bapts anyone pls

[Northern Lass]

Burial St Giles Rowley Regis
William Smith Lawrences Lane 25 fever

[nailer2011]

Jan,

I can understand why you are not entirely convinced but it has been shown without reasonable doubt that Mary Smith is sister of Emma etc and on the Leah Green thread and in earlier Shakespeare thread it is recorded that:

RR disc
Bap
28 Mar 1824 - Mary, d of William & Ruth Smith, Garrets Lane, Nailer

William is described here as a Nailer but on her marriage certificate as a Collier. So there is some consistency between Samuel and Mary.

H.

[nailer2011]

Jan,

The 1851 census record that best fits the profile of Samuel Smith is

Bowling Green, Dudley
Samuel Smith, Widr, 22 years, Miner, born in Staffs - Rowley

What do you think

He is living next door to a
Benjamin Smith, 24 years, Colliery labourer, born Mouth Sweet
Mary Smith, wife, 24 years, born Bowling Green.

You have already listed the 1861 census record for Samuel and his wife, Elizabeth (Betsy) nee Gaze in Elbow Street.

H.

[Northern Lass]

We know that Samuel has mother Ruth Smith nee Green
and that one is on 1841

but how do we know that the Samuel Married to Elizabeth Gaze has a mother Ruth Smith nee green

we know both Samuels have father William
but they maybe different Williams

and the one married to Eliz Gaze may have a different mothers name entirely

[Jimmy]

1851. Bowling Green, Dudley.
Benjamin Smith 29. Colliery lab. Mouth Sweet, Worcestershire.
Mary Smith 24. Wife. Bowling Green, Worcestershire.
Samuel Smith 22. Widow. Miner. Rowley, Staffordshire.

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2033; Folio: 553; Page: 3; GSU roll: 87440.

[Jimmy]

Is he a widow on marriage cert.

[Northern Lass]

Is he a widow on marriage cert.

No he is a bach
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =106632273

[Northern Lass]

1851. Bowling Green, Dudley.
Benjamin Smith 29. Colliery lab. Mouth Sweet, Worcestershire.
Mary Smith 24. Wife. Bowling Green, Worcestershire.
Samuel Smith 22. Widow. Miner. Rowley, Staffordshire.

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2033; Folio: 553; Page: 3; GSU roll: 87440.

Now this gets interesting

this one above is I think a Benjamin Smith marrying a Mary Smith Clent 1845
I have marriage

his father is Samuel a nailer
and hers is this one
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =345113705

John Smith and wife sarah are down the page on that 1851
and Joseph Jeavons and wife Ruth are near Benjamin Smith and Mary Smith

so is that Samuel bro to Benjamin with father Samuel

Joseph Jeavons is a wit at marriage adding to bcc now

[Northern Lass]

there is this marriage
father William Smith nailer decd

could be the Samuel on the 1851

3 Dec 1848 St Thomas Dudley
Samuel Smith 20 bach miner Netherton William Smith deceased nailer
Selina Faulkner 20 spinster Netherton Joseph Faulkner deceased nailer
banns
X both
Wit- X Joseph Partridge / X Hannah Partridge

area is good
name of father is good and occup fits

but still doesn't mean same Samuel with mother Ruth green
and why is he bach on the Elizabeth Gaze marriage....and it deffo says bach..should be wid
no kids named Ruth or William

can anyone see a death for selina betw 1848 and 1851

and the marriage for those wits ...could be Parkbridge hard to read

fed up with smiths now

[Northern Lass]

Interesting on the 1881 for Samuel Smith and Betsy

next door is William Smith aged 37 b Rowley and wife Sarah

1881 21 Elbow Street
William Smith head mar 37 labourer at works iron b Rowley Regis
Sarah Smith wife 30
Arthur Smith son 3
Benjamin Smith son 1 month
all born Rowley Regis

no 22 is Samuel and Betsy

[nailer2011]

Jan,

An earlier post seemed to disappear!

It said that Samuel and Betsy had a son, William, born in about 1875 (not on BCC).

I will keep looking for other clues .

H.