ARC TBC - Seadoe or Seador name in Scotland

[usignuolo]

I am still groping around in the fog. Let us assume that Mary Seadoe-- , who I first thought was my great great grandmother, is a red herring and nothing to do with the case.

What do I know definitely? Charles (?) Goss was my great grandfather. He was a French polisher and born in Kentish town. Charles was married to Lydia and had several children. One was Ellen Eliza Goss my grandmother. The family lived in North London. My great grandfather was still alive in the early part of the twentieth century because my father described visiting him as a child. I was called Mary as one of my names, after my father's grandmother. I know all this because my father told me.

Looking for likely candidates for my great great grand parents, in the 1891 census I found Mary Goss, a window, of 58, born in 1823, living in Lt Randolph street London NW1 (today Rousden st) with (some of ) her children. These were Charles, Maria, Mary Anne and Eliza. Charles birth place is given as Kentish town which fits what my father told me. If he was born in 1850 or 1859 he would be the right age to be my great great grandfather. (There seems to be some doubt over whether he was born in 1850 or 1859.)

But where were Charles Goss's parents from? In the Goss family above, the eldest daughter Maria was born in Great Yarmouth, although Charles, was born in Kentish town. So maybe the parents were from Great Yarmouth? In the right age bracket is a Charles Goss born in 1920/1 in Great Yarmouth, who was a tailor. This also makes sense, all that generation of my ancestors were tailors and lived in the Islington Highgate area of London.

After that it gets confusing. What was his wife's maiden name, when did they marry and where was she from? Was it 1845, and was she actually Mary MacElroy as suggests above? Looking at the census returns for the family above is also puzzling. In the 1891 census, it says Mary Goss was born in Scotland. In the 1871 census it says she was born in Ireland. Someone here has indicated it says in 1861 she came from Norfolk.

I am starting to wonder if there are two overlapping families living in North London at the same time, both with a Charles Goss and Mary Goss in them. Maybe related?

[usignuolo]

I have gone back and read this again. So if Charles Goss and Mary McElroy married in 1845, and are my real great great grandparents, can we find out where she was from? Ireland, Scotland or Norfolk?

[Jimmy]

The only way you are going to find Mary's surname before marriage, and I think Mark will agree with this, is to get an actual birth certificate for at least one of the children.

[usignuolo]

OK will see if I can round up Charles from North London.

[MarkCDodd]

It is easy to get confused but I can assure you, there is only one family and we have traced them from the 1841 to 1891 census for you.

There is no confusion about Charles Jnr's birth. If you look at the actual 1881 census it is 21 years of age, not 31.

Finding the right birth for Charles Snr will take a bit of detective work.

One source of information would be the apprentiship paper for Charles Jnr.

I will see if I can drag them up for you.

The will of Charles Snr may also be of use.

I will see if that is available.

When doing the family tree the number one rule is to find multiple sources of information to support a fact.

Basing the age of anybody based on a single census is not wise.

Similarly, their place of birth can vary greately on census.

There are many reasons for this but just accept the fact that Mary was born in Scotland and the census that say otherwise are wrong.

A good clue across the census is Maria. She was born an "imbecile" and this is evident in several of the census returns.

What I will do is build a small tree for you and I can e-mail the Gedcom file to you.

Give me a day or so to do that.

[usignuolo]

many thanks for all your help

[Jimmy]

Possible marriage.
Marriages Dec 1840.
CORBETT James. Marylebone. 1. 228.
COTTLE Elizabeth Emma. Marylebone. 1. 228.
CUDDEN Robert. Marylebone. 1. 228.
GOSS Charles. Marylebone. 1. 228.
SEADOE_ Mary. Marylebone. 1. 228.
Stenson Sarah. Marylebone. 1. 228.
WILLIS John. Marylebone. 1. 228.
Young John. Marylebone. 1. 228.

As Mark says this marriage is for a Charlotte Goss,

from image.
Name: Charlotte Goss.
Spouse Name: Robert Cudden.
Spouse Age: Full Age.
Record Type: Marriage.
Marriage Date: 09 Nov 1840.
Parish: St Marylebone.
County: Middlesex.
Borough: Westminster.
Father Name: Thomas Goss.
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Cudden.

[usignuolo]

My brother has turned up the marriage certificate of Charles Goss and Lydia Mee (my great grandparents). Like the one quoted by Mark above however, the information is limited, under ages it just says Full Age, for both parties, and for parents, it just had Dead scrawled across both parties parents. Is there a reason for this lack of information e.g.not even their ages?

[MarkCDodd]

If they were 21 or over they could simply put "Of Age" or similar.

Just personal choice by the couple.

The fathers' names and occupations should still be listed even if they are deceased.

In Australia we get the names of both parents (including the mother's maiden name) on the wedding records since the 1840's and that makes things a lot easier....

[MarkCDodd]

Do you have Family Tree Maker 2010 or 2011?

If so I can send you the tree in that format.

Other wise it will be a Gedcom with a bunch of seperate pictures.

[Jimmy]

My brother has turned up the marriage certificate of Charles Goss and Lydia Mee (my great grandparents). Like the one quoted by Mark above however, the information is limited, under ages it just says Full Age, for both parties, and for parents, it just had Dead scrawled across both parties parents. Is there a reason for this lack of information e.g.not even their ages?

Lydia Bee.
Spouse Name: Charles Goss.
Spouse Age: Full Age.
Record Type: Marriage.
Marriage Date: 24 Dec 1882.
Parish: St Pancras Old Church.
County: Middlesex.
Borough: Camden.

Both parents dead.

[usignuolo]

If you look at her signature it looks Lydia Mee not Bee. However, I have just had a look on Family Search and there were Bees living in Great Yarmouth at the right time, so will follow it up as Lydia Bee.

Still don't know why it says parents were dead in the register- when I thought their fathers had to be declared by law, living or deceased. The page my brother found in the register had the same thing scrawled on the previous couple's entry as well.

If they married in church, would there be bans with any more information on? Mrs Goss, Charles mother was alive in the 1881 census. The couple married in 1882. Did she die or did they marry in secret perhaps?

I have an older version of FTM I am afraid.

[MarkCDodd]

I have the Banns and no extra information.

I have the name of Charles' senior parents in Norfolk as well as his baptism.

I haven't looked at Lydia's family but I might have a quick squiz,

Sned me your e-mail address via a PM and I will e-mails the gedcom and parish registers etc.

[Jimmy]

If you look at her signature it looks Lydia Mee not Bee.

It could be Bee.

goss.jpg (47.36 KiB) Viewed 3419 times

[usignuolo]

Yes I have decided on balance it is Lydia Bee. I have found a census entry 1881 for Lydia Bee, 52 widow, Lydia Bee her daughter 29 and a grandchild Emma 1 (maybe less) living at 6 William Street. This says they were all born in St Pancras. I think this must be the right family. Lydia married Charles Goss in 1882 (seems her mother died earlier the same year) but the grandchild Emma vanishes completely from the records after 1881?

Curious that they should all be tailors including Lydia. Everyone in my generation struggles to sew on a button.