Genealogy Forum UK

Maths girl wrote:
I think I am confused now:
Question 1: Where are Thomas William Lee and Agnes in 1881?
Question 2: Presuming that Thomas William was Martha's son (in/out of wedlock - her first "WILLSON" husband could have died -we would need to investigate marriage details for this) are we saying that

1867 Thomas William Wilson born to Martha Willson and ???
1871 Thomas William Lee - Son of Martha and Alfred Lee
1881 ??
1887 Thomas William Wilson marries Lucy Lane
1888 William Wilson (Mally's grandfather born) parents William Thomas Wilson and Lucy Lane
1891 William Wilson - Living with grandparents Alfred and Martha Lee
1901 William Lee - living with Thomas Lee and Lucy Lee
1907 William marries - father William Wilson

Question 3: Are all these Thomas William Wilson the same person with a confused identity?

Right! Had another look and ....

Question 1: Where are Thomas William Lee and Agnes in 1881?
Thomas William Lee was with his Gr?.Grandmother Ann and Agnes may have died? - Deaths Mar 1874 LEE Agnes 4 Birmingham 6d 93

Question 2: Presuming that Thomas William was Martha's son (in/out of wedlock - her first "WILLSON" husband could have died -we would need to investigate marriage details for this)
I'll send for the Marriage Cert - Willson Martha LEE Alfred Thomas Birmingham 6d 206


...and so the saga goes on

Thanks again to you and Pete

mmmm....but then again, Martha would have been only 18 when she married Alfred in 1867, so couldn't have been married previously could she?

1871: 17 Darby Street, Deritend, Aston
Alfred Thomas Lee 26 Head Metal Annealer? Mountswell, Leicester
Mertha Lee 22 Wife Birmingham
Thomas William Lee 4 Son Aston Birmingham
Agnes Lee 1 Dau Aston Birmingham

Still puzzled but at least I've now found my Grandfather William from 1920 ( when my father was born) up until he died
He married Clara Fradley in 1907 at St Laurence Church, Aston, Birmingham.

Can anyone see them in 1911 please?

1920 St Pauls 461 388 H O H O Wilson Clara 7 back of GRAHAM STREET
1920 St Pauls 461 387 R O Wilson William 7 back of GRAHAM STREET

1925 St Pauls 461 408 HO HO Wilson Clara 7 do.. GRAHAM STREET
1925 St Pauls 461 407 R O Wilson William 7 do.. GRAHAM STREET

1930 St Pauls Ward 461 438 Rw Dw Wilson Clara 7 back 64 GRAHAM STREET
1930 St Pauls Ward 461 437 R O Wilson William 7 back 64 GRAHAM STREET

1935 St Pauls Ward 597 534 R O Wilson William 7 back 64 GRAHAM STREET
1935 St Pauls Ward 597 535 Rw Dw Wilson Clara 7 back 64 GRAHAM STREET

1939 Ladywood 389 587 R O Wilson William 139 SHERBORNE STREET
1939 Ladywood 389 588 Rw Dw Wilson Clara 139 SHERBORNE STREET

1945 Ladywood Ward 388 328 CI Wilson William 143 GROSVENOR STREET WEST
1945 Ladywood Ward 388 329 CI Wilson Clara 143 GROSVENOR STREET WEST

Death - 1952 3qtr
William Wilson Age 64 Birmingham 9c 249
20th Aug 1952 at 143 Grosvenor Street West, Ladywood
Profession: Universal Grinder (Engineering Works)

Hey Look they have reverted to Lee!! look at the Boarder's name surely too much of a coincidence not to be our William and Clara Wilson nee Fradley or not?!!

1911 : 5 Back 39 Pope St B'ham

LEE, William Head Married M 23 1888 Emery Wheeler Birmingham VIEW
LEE, Clara Wife Married
5 years F 23 1888 Home Duties Birmingham VIEW
LEE, Clara Daughter F 3 1908 Birmingham VIEW
LEE, Thomas Son M 0 (4 MONTHS) 1911 Birmingham VIEW
FRADLEY, Gertrude Boarder Single F 13 1898 Polisher Birmingham

I Luv you Mathsgirl
That's got to be them, I remember my Dad mentioning Pope St !!!!!!

Thankyou, gonna have a good look at that

Maths girl wrote:Hey Look they have reverted to Lee!! look at the Boarder's name surely too much of a coincidence not to be our William and Clara Wilson nee Fradley or not?!!

1911 : 5 Back 39 Pope St B'ham

LEE, William Head Married M 23 1888 Emery Wheeler Birmingham VIEW
LEE, Clara Wife Married 5 years F 23 1888 Home Duties Birmingham
LEE, Clara Daughter F 3 1908 Birmingham
LEE, Thomas Son M 0 (4 MONTHS) 1911 Birmingham
FRADLEY, Gertrude Boarder Single F 13 1898 Polisher Birmingham

Clara was my dads sister

I know this is the correct marriage because my cousin told me her fathers name was really Henry
Marriages Sep 1929
PARKER Henry A Wilson Birmingham N. 6d 1215
Wilson Clara Parker Birmingham N. 6d 1215

as kids, we always called him Uncle Harry


......and here's my Uncle Tom and Aunt Ivy

Marriages Mar 1931
Box Ivy M Wilson Birmingham N. 6d 668
Wilson Thomas Box Birmingham N. 6d 668


why-oh-why, the name change (Lee), that's what I can't understand?

Maths girl wrote:
1911 : 5 Back 39 Pope St B'ham

LEE, William Head Married M 23 1888 Emery Wheeler Birmingham VIEW
LEE, Clara Wife Married
5 years F 23 1888 Home Duties Birmingham VIEW
LEE, Clara Daughter F 3 1908 Birmingham VIEW
LEE, Thomas Son M 0 (4 MONTHS) 1911 Birmingham VIEW
FRADLEY, Gertrude Boarder Single F 13 1898 Polisher Birmingham

quote from Mally - why-oh-why, the name change (Lee), that's what I can't understand?

Mally - do you have the birth certificates of Clara, Thomas or any of their younger siblings - any clues there? What about any Wills ? When did the older Lees die? What about Gertrude Fradley's marriage in 1913 - any clue from the witnesses?

If you could isolate when they used Wilson and when Lee it might answer why!

Yes, good idea Mathsgirl.......

I searched for all births between 1907 - 1924 with parents Wilson/Fradley

Births Jun 1912
Wilson Frederick Fradley Aston 6d 536 ?

Births Jun 1913
Wilson Gertrude Fradley Birmingham 6d 599

Births Mar 1915
Wilson Lily Fradley Birmingham 6d 540

Births Dec 1917
Wilson Frances Fradley Birmingham 6d 339

Births Mar 1920
Wilson Frank Fradley Birmingham 6d 668

Births Jun 1922
Wilson Joseph Fradley Birmingham 6d 504

Births Sep 1923
Wilson William Fradley Birmingham 6d 546

But then I found these separately..........

Births Jun 1908
Wilson Clara Birmingham 6d 144

Birth 1911
WILSON Thomas Birmingham 6d 8

Perhaps I should send for one or both of these cos on 1911 Census they are down as 'Lee'

mallosa wrote: But then I found these separately..........

Births Jun 1908
Wilson Clara Birmingham 6d 144

Birth 1911
WILSON Thomas Birmingham 6d 8

Perhaps I should send for one or both of these cos on 1911 Census they are down as 'Lee'

It would certainly be interesting to see how they describe themselves as parents

Yes I agree Mathsgirl
I've sent an e-mail to the Genealogist at Birmingham Register Office, so I'll let you know what he says

mallosa wrote:Yes I agree Mathsgirl
I've sent an e-mail to the Genealogist at Birmingham Register Office, so I'll let you know what he says

You obviously have friends in the right places! Waiting in anticipation!

No I don't, this is what it says on the website .......

"We have a resident Genealogist, John Yates, who is happy to answer any questions you may have about your family history research"

mallosa wrote::lol: No I don't, this is what it says on the website .......

"We have a resident Genealogist, John Yates, who is happy to answer any questions you may have about your family history research"

he is a great guy really really helpful
I have spoken to him a few times and he is lovely!

Just caught up with this saga, Mally, and waiting eagerly for next instalment.

Thanks Di, I'll keep you posted when I know more