ARC TBC - Joseph harper & hannah clift

[Northern Lass]

Question ...which is I think what nailer is saying....

Is this Joseph Harper (that marries possibly Sarah Cox)
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =523735596

is he the son of Joseph Harper that marries Sarah Forrest?
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... i=98346422

How do we know that that Joseph Harper --with parents Joseph and Sarah Forrest marries Hannah Clift and not Sarah Cox?

[Northern Lass]

There is a lot of work gone into this family on this site..
http://familytrees.genopro.com/harrycaper/FamilyTree/

Part of the will from the above site of James Clift..

First I give and bequeath unto my daughter Mary Taylor five pounds (to be left in the hands of my daughter Hannah Harper) to be paid to her at eighteen pence each and every week from the time of my decease. And as to the rest and residue of my personal estate and effects of what kind or nature soever I give and bequeath unto and amongst all and every my child and children (namely) Thomas Clift, James Clift, William Clift, Hannah Harper and Josiah Clift to be divided to and amongst them share and share alike my said son Josiah Clift to pay out of his share two pounds eleven shillings and eight pence to my said daughter Hannah Harper. And my will and desire is that my son in law Joseph Harper and my daughter Hannah Harper shall have the use of all my stock of cattle and all other my personal property for the term of twelve months from my decease. And after the said term of twelve months then to be sold and the monies arising therefrom to be equally divided as aforesaid share and share alike.

St Martin, Birmingham
5 April 1790
Joseph Harper of this parish, batchelor
Hannah Clift, X, of this parish, spinster
by Banns
Wit - Joshua Whitehouse, X and Mary Taylor, X

So that proves that it is a Hannah Clift marrying a Joseph Harper.............but we still dont know that the Joseph Harper that marries Hannah Clift is son of Joseph and Sarah Forrest
or
if the Joseph Harper that marries Sarah Cox is son of Joseph Harper and Sarah Forrest

[Northern Lass]

I have put both Joseph harpers with Joseph and Sarah Forrest while worked on
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =355527495

might not be able to prove which lady Joseph s of Joseph and Sarah forrest married

[nailer2011]

Jan,

You have summarised my dilemma very well.

However, I wonder if the fact that some online records refer to the Joseph that married Hannah Clift as being 'of Cakemore' and Hannah is the same, whereas the marriage record of the Joseph that married Sarah Cox (in Clent) says he was 'of Rowley Regis'.

My knowledge of the geography of the area is not good, so Is Cakemore part of Halesowen

Has anyone got a copy of the actual parish record of the marriage of Joseph Harper and Sarah Forrest (or can look it up) and if so does it offer any info about them

Thanks....H

[peterd]

Think cakemore is hurst green area it between halesowen and rowley regis but think in came under rowley regis ?

[peterd]

joseph harper ( b ) sarah cox daughter mary ann marries poss brothers son benjamin who parents are james and leah ?

[peterd]

John Harper, X, otp, bach
Rebecka Dillard, X, otp, spin
by JP (Curate)
Wit - Thos. Tibbits & Ann Tyson

St John Halesowen
11 Jan 1794
James Harper, X, otp, bach
Leah Grigg, X, otp, spin
by WS (Vicar)
Wit - Moses Rose & Richard Fiddian

St Martin, Birmingham
5 April 1790
Joseph Harper (a) of this parish, batchelor
Hannah Clift, X, of this parish, spinster
by Banns
Wit - Joshua Whitehouse, X and Mary Taylor, X

11 Jun 1794 Clent
Joseph Harper,( b) X, bach, of the Parish of Rowley Regis
Sarah Cox, X, spr, ots
by Banns
Wit - Joseph Bloomer & Robt Waldron

[nailer2011]

Peter,

So the Joseph 'of Rowley Regis' (who married Sarah Cox) is consistent with being 'of Cakemore' Whereas the Joseph who married Hannah Clift is described 'of the parish of St Martins Birmingham'.

My initial research and assumptions were influenced by information from another researcher, who was known to Nigel Brown (of 'Cradleylinks' fame), one Martin Platt-Grigg whose interest was Leah Grigg. He was also of the view that Benjamin Harper married his cousin Mary Ann Harper, thus making the Joseph and Sarah Cox the right link.

so am I

H.

[peterd]

was trying to find sarah & elizabeth marriages joseph sisters to see if theres any witness that tie together ?

[FarSide]

Poss for sister Mary

Halesowen
17 Apr 1775
Henry Taylor, X, otp, bach
Mary Clift, X, otp, spin
by PW (Vicar)
Wit - William Clift, X and Joseph Chandler

William Clift poss bro

Mary Clift
Christening Date: 24 Apr 1757 HALESOWEN,WORCESTER,

Father's Name: James Clift
Mother's Name: Ann

System Origin:England-ODM
GS Film number:886632, 886633, 886634

[FarSide]

Think cakemore is hurst green area it between halesowen and rowley regis but think in came under rowley regis ?

Maybe of use..
http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/9750

[FarSide]

Peter,

So the Joseph 'of Rowley Regis' (who married Sarah Cox) is consistent with being 'of Cakemore' Whereas the Joseph who married Hannah Clift is described 'of the parish of St Martins Birmingham'.

My initial research and assumptions were influenced by information from another researcher, who was known to Nigel Brown (of 'Cradleylinks' fame), one Martin Platt-Grigg whose interest was Leah Grigg. He was also of the view that Benjamin Harper married his cousin Mary Ann Harper, thus making the Joseph and Sarah Cox the right link.

so am I

H.

Both are quoted as 'of this parish'. We know from the Will the Clifts were from Cakemore area..

St Martin, Birmingham
5 April 1790
Joseph Harper (a) of this parish, batchelor
Hannah Clift, X, of this parish, spinster
by Banns
Wit - Joshua Whitehouse, X and Mary Taylor, X

[Northern Lass]

So do we think that Joseph (b) Harper on Bcc is the correct Joseph....
Joseph Harper son of Joseph and Sarah marries a Sarah Cox

rather than Joseph (a) Harper marrying Hannah Clift couple

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =107739538

[nailer2011]

Jan,

To me it still seems confused I thought the key may be the reference to Cakemore and whether it is part of Rowley Regis or Halesowen as Joseph who married in Clent was 'of Rowley Regis' but the use 'of this parish' does not seem to mean anything, as Joseph and Hannah are described 'of the parish' of St Martins in Birmingham.

Others may have a more positive/clear view .

H

[nailer2011]

Jan,

Another thought was that the 'profession' of the Josephs may be a clue, as we know from the Will Joseph and Hannah were left use of agricultural stock. Unfortunately, the Joseph who married Sarah Cox, who is found in the 1851 census living with his daughter, Matilda, is described as an 'Agricultural Labourer'. So nothing there to help

H