Blood, Sweat and T-shirts

[snoopysue]

They've been showing a Danish documentary series about 5 students who are to put it mildy rather spoiled.
They get their grant subsidised by their parents so they have new cars and clothing allowances of more than I can afford to pay for clothes!

They get sent to India where they work in various sweat shops. They live in the same conditions as the locals, and get the same pay (one place they got paid about 0.07 pence per item they sewed, and needed to sew 200 each just to have enough for a place to sleep).
Each time they move to a new work place they get pushed a little further, and conditions and pay are worse! They end up at a rubbish tip where people sort the rubbish.

One of the girls is adopted from India, and she has a difficult time coping; most of them talk to their bosses as though they were in europe, which doesn't go down well. It certainly opens their eyes (and mine) as to the conditions the people who make our clothes have to put up with.
It's a dilema, if I boycott clothes from India, do I make things better or worse? Unless the importers make demands for better working conditions, things wont change, or what?

[Antie Em]

They've been showing a Danish documentary series about 5 students who are to put it mildy rather spoiled.
They get their grant subsidised by their parents so they have new cars and clothing allowances of more than I can afford to pay for clothes!

They get sent to India where they work in various sweat shops. They live in the same conditions as the locals, and get the same pay (one place they got paid about 0.07 pence per item they sewed, and needed to sew 200 each just to have enough for a place to sleep).
Each time they move to a new work place they get pushed a little further, and conditions and pay are worse! They end up at a rubbish tip where people sort the rubbish.

One of the girls is adopted from India, and she has a difficult time coping; most of them talk to their bosses as though they were in europe, which doesn't go down well. It certainly opens their eyes (and mine) as to the conditions the people who make our clothes have to put up with.
It's a dilema, if I boycott clothes from India, do I make things better or worse? Unless the importers make demands for better working conditions, things wont change, or what?

When my kids were small, it was cheaper to make their clothes than to but them - this is how I got into dressmaking. When my girls were about 17 - they would go to Wallis or Rackhams is Birmingham, chose a dress that they liked, go to the market and get the material. I would then copy the dress and they would take the original back to Birmingham and get their money back. This was in the 1870s and 1980s.

These days I can to to ASDA or Sainsburys and get a lovely little outfit for my 9 year old granddaughter for about £12. Now, I couldn't but the matierial for that much, then I would have to buy or make a pattern, then I would have to spend time making it up.

Doesn't take much to realise how much people in the third world are being paid, does it. We could boycott these shops and feel good that we're not exploiting people, but then would they would lose out.

[MarkCDodd]

Documentaries like that should be compulsory viewing at school.

I have sat down with my daughters and watched similar in the past and they are keenly aware for my preference that they avoid puchasing items from China or India.

Not buying the goods is not going to hurt the "employees".

If enough people stop buying and the "employer" still wants to make money, they will eventually realise the cause of the boycot and improve the working conditions and pay.

Purchasing such items gives the employer an "OK" to continue the abuse now and for generations to come.

[snoopysue]

There were a lot of documentaries about China and the working conditions there a few years ago, and they say that danes buy less from China than they did. A lot of the danish companies that have their goods manufactured there try and make sure that the working conditions are ikay, but it's an uphill struggle.
One thing I would never buy is chinese made taps, as they quite often are made from recycled metals and can contain lead, chrome etc on the inside which them comes out in the water which we then drink!

Another doc, was about chocolate and the amount of child labour that goes into the production of it. There has been a large increase in the amount of fairtrade chocolate sold in Denmark.

I think the way to go is the importers make demands on the manufacturers, and make sure the consumers know about it so we can make informed choices. I do believe that if I boycott Indian and chinese goods for ever then things wont improve.

I agree with you Antie Em, it was cheaper years ago to make your own clothes. My mum did it a lot. She'd buy a blouse and make a pattern from it, and make up new ones in whatever fabric we liked. We were lucky to have a shop close to us that does fabric and yarn seconds, sold by weight. It started off as a few old wooden barracks in the middle of no where (close to Mostyn docks on the North Wales coast), and now has a cafe and craft shop, and modern buildings. You could even buy seconds quit cover fabric from companies such as Dorma. I had school sweaters Mum ran up on her knitting machine that cost just a few pence (not including the cost of the machine of course!).

[MarkCDodd]

My dad used to make a lot of our clothes when we lived in England.

They won a knitting machine and he became very good at it which caused great amusment to his drinking mates at the local.

[snoopysue]

My dad used to make a lot of our clothes when we lived in England.

They won a knitting machine and he became very good at it which caused great amusment to his drinking mates at the local.

Knitting used to be done by men!

[MarkCDodd]

I know that elderly men and boy scouts did a lot of kniting for the troops in WWII but it wasn't exactly regarded as a masculine pastime amongst the blokes at the local in 1960!

[SRD]

Any pastime/job that might make some kind of income was taken up by men, gaining the income was the man's job, looking after the family and home was the woman's job. Also many of these skills were taken up by sailors to fill in the long hours when everything was going fine, no tacking, no sails to trim, decks all holystoned, caulking done etc. etc.

[Antie Em]

My granddad fought in the first world war and lost a leg in the Somme at aged 18. He spent nearly a year in hospital in Middlesex where he was fitted with false leg. Before he went to war, he was a miner, aged 14 at Hampstead Colliery and when he came home, he learned to walk again and found work at Lucas in Birmingham, where he travelled every day, from Tipton, walking half the way because he couldn't afford the tram fare. My mom says he was the most macho man she had ever met, he was afraid of no-one, he even won a couple of fights in the pub while he was on crutches.

While he was in hospital he learned to sew and made the most beautiful embroidery in silver thread on black velvet, where he placed his medals and a letter from the King in a glass frame. He was never in any doubt of his manhood and his embroidery hung on the wall for all to see.

He signed on to fight for his country before he was old enough to fight, and he was so proud of his handywork. So - real men can sew.

[snoopysue]

My granddad fought in the first world war and lost a leg in the Somme at aged 18. He spent nearly a year in hospital in Middlesex where he was fitted with false leg. Before he went to war, he was a miner, aged 14 at Hampstead Colliery and when he came home, he learned to walk again and found work at Lucas in Birmingham, where he travelled every day, from Tipton, walking half the way because he couldn't afford the tram fare. My mom says he was the most macho man she had ever met, he was afraid of no-one, he even won a couple of fights in the pub while he was on crutches.

While he was in hospital he learned to sew and made the most beautiful embroidery in silver thread on black velvet, where he placed his medals and a letter from the King in a glass frame. He was never in any doubt of his manhood and his embroidery hung on the wall for all to see.

He signed on to fight for his country before he was old enough to fight, and he was so proud of his handywork. So - real men can sew.

Well said Antie Em!

[MarkCDodd]

"Real men" can do anything they want. Still doesn't stop the ribbing by the boys at the pub!

Anything that gives leverage for your mates barbs is fair game.

I don't think they are going to listen to an historical account of how many men knitted in the past or its origins.

And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It is just for fun.

[Northern Lass]

"Real men" can do anything they want. Still doesn't stop the ribbing by the boys at the pub!

Anything that gives leverage for your mates barbs is fair game.

I don't think they are going to listen to an historical account of how many men knitted in the past or its origins.

And I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It is just for fun.

Can you knit one of these real men!

or are they just big nits!

[MarkCDodd]

Hmmmm.....must be the dementia that makes that funny.

[Northern Lass]

Hmmmm.....must be the dementia that makes that funny.

Don't worry it gets better with age!

[snoopysue]

Hmmmm.....must be the dementia that makes that funny.

Don't worry it gets better with age!

Better or woerse?