"completed" Ann Maria HIPKISS born 1839, Birmingham

[expat66]

I know that there alot of HIPKISSES in the Black Country... but Ann Maria was born in B'ham.

She was the wife of James GREAVES ( who we still don't know what happened to!)
I am having some difficulty getting further back than her Dad on my tree.

I have Ann Maria's Christening record ( at St Phillips in July 1839) this lists her father as Joseph HIPKISS ( keymaker) resident in Saltley Street, mother Fanny.
On Ann Maria's marriage certificate to James GREAVES..and later to William PETERS.. her father is listed as Joseph (toolmaker)

Another member on 'Ancestry' very kindly sent me Christening records for Ann Maria and her siblings. I have :-
Fanny HIPKISS Christened 1834.. father Joseph HIPKISS(labourer).. mother Fanny.. resident in Hospital St
Mary Eliza HIPKISS Christened 1841.. father Joseph HIPKISS(locksmith?)... mother Frances... resident Gt Barr St.
Joseph Henry HIPKISS Christened 1843.. father Joseph HIPKISS(locksmith).. mother Frances... resident Gt Barr St.

I found on the 1861 census
65 Tyndal St
Joseph HIPKISS(39) press tool maker... born B'ham
wife Frances (41) born Harborne
son Joseph Henry (17) press tool maker born B'ham

and in 1871
51 Pope St
Joseph HIPKISS(49) toolmaker.. born B'ham
wife Frances (52) born Harborne
grandson Joseph H GREAVES (7) born Wolverhampton...( I think this is the son of Ann Maria HIPKISS &James GREAVES)

So now my problem... I can't find these people on any census before 1861 and I can't work out who Frances is
Any ideas

Over to you clever people!!
Expat

[grangers14]

??
Transcribed as Lott Hipkiss, Not sure of name?

1841. Great Barr Street, Deritend and Bordesley, Aston
? Hipkiss, 20, Locksmith
Frances, 20, Not born in County
Ann, 2,
Frances Geaves, 66, Not born in County
Martha Green, 25, Gilder, Not born in County
All others born in County

[grangers14]

??

from freebmd
Marriages Jun 1839
CARLESS Elizabeth Kings Norton 18 488
CHECKLEY William Kings Norton 18 488
GREAVES Frances Kings Norton 18 488
HARRIS Joseph Kings Norton 18 488
HIPKISS Joseph Kings Norton 18 488
PLASKETT Jane Kings Norton 18 488
Walmsley Harriet Horatio Kings Norton 18 488
Wilding Joseph Kings Norton 18 488

[Jimmy]

??
Transcribed as Lott Hipkiss, Not sure of name?

1841. Great Barr Street, Deritend and Bordesley, Aston
? Hipkiss, 20, Locksmith
Frances, 20, Not born in County
Ann, 2,
Frances Geaves, 66, Not born in County
Martha Green, 25, Gilder, Not born in County
All others born in County

Looking at the image I would say that Lott could be Josh.

[expat66]

??
Transcribed as Lott Hipkiss, Not sure of name?

1841. Great Barr Street, Deritend and Bordesley, Aston
? Hipkiss, 20, Locksmith
Frances, 20, Not born in County
Ann, 2,
Frances Geaves, 66, Not born in County
Martha Green, 25, Gilder, Not born in County
All others born in County

Looking at the image I would say that Lott is Josh.

So that could well be Joseph.
This sort of makes sense.. though it is tying my brain in knots trying to get the connections worked out.
Looking at my tree... Ann Maria HIPKISS married James GREAVES
His father was Matthew GREAVES ( born 1816)
Matthew's mother was Frances COALES.. who married Austin GREAVES... she could be the Frances GREAVES aged 66 above
Matthew had a sister Martha ( also 1816..I think!).. who married a ???? GREEN ( haven't worked out his first name)
If we have the right people Frances(66) is mother of Martha(25)... maybe Frances(20) is another daughter of Frances(66)... though I don't have one on my tree?

So the Frances aged 20 could well be a 'GREAVES'

Does that mean that Ann Maria married her cousin James?

Oh... my head hurts!
Expat

[grangers14]

It just doesnt look like the other J s though
Locksmith Key Maker?

It feels like the right family...
Jo

[grangers14]

freebmd

Births Sep 1839
Hipkiss Ann Maria Aston 16 164

If its the right one will give mothers maiden name

[grangers14]

That 1841 census is Great Barr street, same place as the christenings say too
Jo

[Jimmy]

I have Ann Maria's Christening record ( at St Phillips in July 1839) this lists her father as Joseph HIPKISS ( keymaker) resident in Saltley Street, mother Fanny.

Saltley is only about 2 miles from Aston where this census was taken,

1841. Great Barr Street, Deritend and Bordesley, Aston.
? Hipkiss, 20, Locksmith.
Frances, 20, Not born in County.
Ann, 2,
Frances Geaves, 66, Not born in County.
Martha Green, 25, Gilder, Not born in County.
All others born in County.

[grangers14]

What address is given on Ann Marias first marriage and witnesses names?
Jo

[expat66]

What address is given on Ann Marias first marriage and witnesses names?
Jo

Looks like Green?.. can't quite read it
I have added jpeg
Expat

Sorry had to remove this file. If you reduce it to just the address or names of witness it can go on. Just for copyright reasons

[expat66]

Does that say Canon Street?
Expat

[grangers14]

To me it looks like ??

35 Back of Canon Street.

not sure on that first name Green and Mary Ann Green

[Jimmy]

Are all these the same family.

Fanny Hipkiss.
Baptism/Christening Date: 27 Sep 1834.
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT MARTIN,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK.
Birth Date: 10 Mar 1834.
Father's Name: Joseph Hipkiss.
Mother's Name: Fanny.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01072-9.
System Origin: England-ODM.
Source Film Number: 919773.

Ann Maria Hipkiss.
Baptism/Christening Date: 29 Jul 1839.
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,.
Birth Date: 08 Jul 1839.
Father's Name: Joseph Hipkiss.
Mother's Name: Fanny.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04179-8.
System Origin: England-ODM.
Source Film Number: 813725.

Mary Eliza Hipkiss.
Baptism/Christening Date: 09 Aug 1841.
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK.
Birth Date: 12 Jul 1841.
Father's Name: Joseph Hipkiss.
Mother's Name: Frances.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04179-8.
System Origin: England-ODM.
Source Film Number: 813725.

Joseph Henry Hipkiss.
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 27 Sep 1844.
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT PHILLIPS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK.
Father's Name: Joseph Hipkiss.
Mother's Name: Frances.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C04179-8.
System Origin: England-ODM.
Source Film Number: 813725.

[expat66]

I think so.... but I'm not sure about that first one... Fanny... different address and Joseph would have been very young ( 13?)
What do you guys think?
Expat

Sorry I removed that file as it will breach copyright