Maths girl wrote:Methodist and Presbyterian don't actually equate -- according to Wikipedia -- Presbyterian is another name for the Church of Scotland and most Presbyterians in England originally had a Scottish connection -- Having said that they were both not the Church of England -- and if someone who was Presbyterian where there wasn't a local church wanted a Christening but not Church of England it might have been the best option.
Also -- if she was without a father the minister at the Methodist Church might have been the only one prepared to do the christening
Some churches refused to baptise unless the parents were Church goers etc -- I suspect some ministers/vicars might have held strong views about Christening illegitimate children!
There are a few things that don't quite add up, as far as I know there isn't a Scottish connection to the Eades family, apart from David Eades who was already a Presbytarian minister when he married into a scottish family. The Jeavons (Sarah's addoptive mother) don't have scottish roots as far as I know. Having said that, the Methodists being the only ones willing to christen an illegitimate child sort of makes sense - but it's her adoptive parents who are down, not her birth mother. It would also presume that the neighbourhood knew the child was illegitimate, and Sarah was born in Staffordshire rather than Middlesborough.
Snoopysue
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority.
I would suggest that the Church records would have notes as to the status of the child to Solomon and Jemima.
The laws were such that even if you "adopted" a child, it could not inherit via normal probate.
So the wills of the adoptee parents are often a clue as they would have to carefully spell out the ineritance of an adopted child in case their "natural" children objected.
The Church would quite often keep a record of the adopted child's status in case probate and inheritance questions arose.
There was no issue with adopting children by protestant or methodist.
The child was not guilty of a sin. (Although if you look at some Scottish birth and baptism records, the word illigetimate can take up 1/3rd of the space).
But the difficulty of inheritance was often considered a problem that made such adoptions too difficult.
I would look at the workhouse records for Newcstle Under Lyne and probably Dudley as well (that is the "undecipherable" word on one of the census).
Davies is a good clue as to the mother or father of the child.
As for one of Solomon's daughters being the mother?
By 1911 that charade would have been well and truly forgotten and the child recognised for who they are.
It is good to learn about the different Christian denominations as they are often an indication of the "class" structure.
Primitive Methodists originated in Staffordshire, around the Potteries, when a few gentlemen were expelled from the Weslyan church.
The biggest difference was the "grass roots" ideology of the P.Ms
They believed in outdoor sermons and preaching whilst wearing normal and functional work clothes.
Weslyans took great pride in dressing for the church meetings and holding them on concecrated ground.
P.Ms believed God could and would intervene on behalf of a Minister to smite the wicked and bring fear to the sinner.
Some P.M Ministers were even reputed to have magic powers and scared even Weslyans!
Zechariah/Zachariah become a very popular name amongst the Primitive Methodists after a local innkeeper, Zechariah Baddeley, was reputed to have God given powers equivalent to withcraft.
Primitive Mthodist teaching appealed to the lower class due to their lack of political correctness and modest dress requirements.
It was grass roots christianity that brought the word of God to the fields and pubs and other meeting places of the hard working Black Country lower class.
Weslyan churches were much more fancy, their Ministers got paid an awfull lot more and their congragations were mainly middle class who liked the pomp and ceremony of Church.
But both Weslyan and Primitive Methodist had to be carefull after they split from the C of E.
Their beliefs started to sound much like those being spouted by revolutionaries.
It was the toning down of the more radical elements of Primitive Methodist teachings, and the lessining of over zealous "political correctness" of the Weslyans, that eventaully led to bothof them recombining into a single church.
Today the Primitive Methodists only exist in small numbers in the USA.
Primitive Methodists would not have been overly converned about having bastard children in their house.
For centuries domestic servants had been falling pregnant to the gentry and senior servants of households.
It was a fact of life and in most cases the sympathy was towards the mother who was not a harlot but a young women seduced by those in charge.
So the theory that she was Solomon and Jemima's secret grand child really does not fit in with the Primitive Methodist thinking.
I have a lot of Primitive Methodist in my Ford, Cutler and Homer lines and there are plenty of bastards quite openly living with their mothers and grand parents.
It is more likely Sarah was rescued from a workhouse after her mother died.
There may not be a family connection but just sympathy from the Eades.
Thanks for checking, Mark There is a will for Solomon Eades, as there is for several of his children and son's in laws, I was toying with the idea of sending off for those, and almost certainly will now.
I agree that it probably is Dudley on that census - a bit odd as all the others say Newcastle Under Lyme or Newcastle Staffs! I'll have to look into those workhouse records. Where do I start looking?
Snoopysue
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority.
Staffordshire Record Office holds some records including: Relieving Officers Report Books, 1902-1921 Medical Relief Lists, 1904-1915 Vaccination Records, 1881-1920 Minutes, 1837-1930 Returns of Births and Deaths, 1894-1924
The Public Record Office holds: Correspondence, 1834-1900 (Class MH12/11363-83) Staff Registers, 1837-1921 (Class MH9/12)
snoopysue wrote:I agree that it probably is Dudley on that census - a bit odd as all the others say Newcastle Under Lyme or Newcastle Staffs!
I wondered if it said Hanley? There are plenty of "D"s which look nothing like the start of that word, and the only letter that seems to fit is "H" with the two vertical strokes missing but the hook on the first stroke and then the squiggle which would continue to the "a". If you look how "Head" is written next to Solomon Eades'. Seems to start at the top, come down with a hook; start at the top, come down, up and circle over anticlockwise, then across to the next letter. There is a Harriet on the list too which shows how H links to a.
"The present is the key to the past" - Charles Lyell
I think this is Solomon's daughter mentioned regarding the Prim. Methodists. http://www.archive.org/stream/northernp ... t_djvu.txt Not sure I fancy meeting in a Tripe Shop You have avery interesting family Snoopysue.
"The present is the key to the past" - Charles Lyell
MarkCDodd wrote:Solomon's will was lodged in London and he left just over 165 quid to Jemima.
That's from the probate calenders isn't it? I don't think it necesarily means that Jemima got the money, just that she was the one they granted probate to. On the one will I've sent off for it looks like it's the son and son in law who were the beneficiaries, but they were the executors, and only the son was the benefiaciary along with his mother and siblings. Interestingly the son in law in question was Solomon Eades and was what lead me down this path in the first place! The one thing that does intrigue me about that will is that it was proved in London and not Durham. I do remember reading something about this, something to do with property being owned in various places.
Snoopysue
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority.
gardener wrote:I think this is Solomon's daughter mentioned regarding the Prim. Methodists. http://www.archive.org/stream/northernp ... t_djvu.txt Not sure I fancy meeting in a Tripe Shop You have avery interesting family Snoopysue.
Thanks Gardener Just downloaded it to my kindle, so I'll be reading it on the train tomorrow!
I'm glad other people find my family interesting! Although claiming them as my own may be stretching the point a bit Jemima would have been my 3rd great grand aunt (according to ancestry!) or the daughter of my gr gr gr gr grandfather. I followed them initially because Solomon was one of the executors on Jemima's father's will. And I spotted that Solomon junior was down as a music professor on the census - this intrigued me as the family was a working class family, and then when I spotted another son becoming a presbytarian minister I was even more intrigued!
I suppose I don't need to tell anyone on here how fascinating it can be unraveling some of the stories!
Snoopysue
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority.
West Hartlepool lost a superior soul in the death of Mrs. Stubbs, daughter of the late Solomon Eades, of Middlesborough. She was a class-leader of the highest type, and a deep sense of the divine presence fell upon the Sunday evening prayer meeting when she engaged in prayer. Her generosity to the church and to the poor was considerable. She fell asleep in the spring of 1908.
This is Pheobe Eades (Sarah Davies Eades addoptive sister, but not the one she later lived with)- I'd already found her, including her death - but it's good to put some flesh on her! Her husband worked for her brother in his music business. Pheobe's will leaves about £650, where as her husbands left only £50, both were on the probate calender for 1914 when William Stubbs died.
Snoopysue
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority.
I've been in touch with Teeside Archives, they have a copy of the parish record of the christening, but it doesn't give any more info than I already have.
Snoopysue
Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority.
