Searching for info on John C Hathaway

[johnny1588]

THis is is all the information I have at the moment from the CWGC:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/SearchResult ... &send.y=16

Wondered if someone would kindly try and find more details about my Great great grandfather. I was told a lot of the records were destroyed so it's maybe a long shot!
TIA

[sparkstopper]

Try this site on Ancestry:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/cat ... spx?cat=39
May have to purchase some credits...

[peterd]

Try this site on Ancestry:
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/search/cat ... spx?cat=39
May have to purchase some credits...

mark or adrian might find it for him sparks

[sparkstopper]

Is this him:

1901 Census: 53 Durham St.Brandon & Byshottles, Brandon Colliery.
Christopher Richardson hd. 69 Engineman(Colliery) b. Evenwood.Dur.
Elizabeth Hathaway dau.widow.41 Housekeeper b. Spennymoor.Dur.
JOHN C. HATHAWAY G/son 16 Coal Miner(Driver) b. Brandon.Dur.
Thos.Hathaway G/son 13 Coal Miner(driver) b. Brandon.
Charles E.Hathaway G/son 10 Schol. b. Brandon.
Isabella Smith Serv.30 Dom.Serv. b. Durham.

[Jimmy]

British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920.
about John C Hathaway.
Name: John C Hathaway.
Regiment or Corps: Durham Light Infantry, King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.
Regimental Number: 204853, 205719.

[Jimmy]

1891. 50 Durham St, Brandon, Durham.
Thos Hathaway 35. Stationery Engineman. Sth Shields, Durham.
Elisth Hathaway 31. Spennymoor, Durham.
John C Hathaway 6. Brandon, Durham.
Thos Hathaway 3. Brandon, Durham.
Chas E Hathaway 1. Brandon, Durham.

[Jimmy]

I can't see any service records.

[johnny1588]

I can't see any service records.

Thanks for your input. Like I said, thought it would be a long shot

[apowell]

Hi,

It's looking like John's services records were destroyed during the Blitz which makes it nearly impossible to confirm any personnel details on his service history during the war. All is not lost however because I can give you some further general information on John's Regiments involvement during the war and we should be able to pinpoint the engagement where he was sadly killed.

Medal Index Card
Name: John C Hathaway
Regiment or Corps: Durham Light Infantry, King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry
Regimental Number: 204853, 205719
Medal:
British Roll: O/2/103B29 Page: 3667
Victory Roll: O/2/103B29 Page: 3667

Casualty
Name: John C. Hathaway
Death Date: 12 Sep 1918
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Gateshead
Rank: Private
Regiment: King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry)
Battalion: 5th Battalion
Number: 205719
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre
Comments: Formerly 4809, D.L.I

The above are the only records we have to look at to attempt to piece together informaton but it's enough to confirm or indicate:

I'm very confident John was a Territorial Force Soldier and was called up in 1914 with his Territorial Regiment (Durham Light Infantry) under the Reg. No 4809. The recruitment of men into TF units was very localised and remained so well into 1916 and the TF was mobilised for full-time war service immediately war was declared.The Regimental Numbers of the Territorials were re-numbered from 4 digit to six digit in the Spring of 1917. If we look at his Medal Index Card the Regimental no of 4809 isn't included which indicates while he had this number he was stationed in the UK.

John's Reg number was re-issued 204853 which shows on his Medal Card so confirms that he held while fighting in France. John's other Regimental Number of 205719 would have been issued when he was transferred to the King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry) which was common practise. I would guess that he was called up in 1914-1915 served and trained at home but was serving in France from the Spring of 1917. We can say for sure that he didn't go overseas until at least 1916 because he wasn't entitled to the 1914-1915 Star medals.

It's impossible to say which Battalion John served with because they're a lot of Territorial Battalions of the Durham Light Infantry and also I can't say for sure when he was transferred to the King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry). We know he was sadly killed serving with the 5th Battalion and from the information I've found this Battalion was the 1/5th until the 2 February 1918 when it was re-named the 5th which confirms John couldn't have been transferred until at least February 1918.

The King's Own (Yorkshire Light Infantry)
Battalions of the Territorial Force
1/5th Battalion
August 1914 : in Doncaster. Record same as 1/4th Bn.
2 February 1918 : transferred to 187th Brigade in 62nd (2nd West Riding) Division and absorbed 2/5th Bn. Renamed 5th Bn.

187th Brigade in 62nd (2nd West Riding) Division
1918
The Battle of Bapaume~ (25 March)
The First Battle of Arras 1918~ (28 March)
~ the battles marked ~ are phases of the First Battles of the Somme 1918
The Battle of the Tardenois (part of the Battles of the Marne 1918) (20 - 30 July)
The Battle of the Scarpe^ (26 - 30 August)
The Battle of the Drocourt-Queant Line^ (2 September)
^ the battles marked ^ are phases of the Second Battles of Arras 1918
The Battle of Havrincourt+ (12 September)
The Battle of the Canal du Nord+ (27 - 30 September)

The information states that John was killed on the 12th September 1918 and if we look at the above information we can confirm he was killed during the battles of the Hindenburg Line and at the Battle of Havrincourt (12 September).

If you goole Battle of Havrincourt you get lots of information and from the CWGC information:
VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL
FRANCE
Pas de Calais
This Memorial bears the names of over 9,000 men who fell in the period from 8 August 1918 to the date of the Armistice in the Advance to Victory in Picardy and Artois, between the Somme and Loos, and who have no known grave.

John was one of the 9,000 men who died and sadly their bodies were never recovered and so John's remains would stll remain around the Villiage of Havrincourt in France.

Please fee free to post a tribute to John on our roll of honour and I hope this information helps.

Kind regards
Adrian

[johnny1588]

Wow! On behalf of myself and my mum I'd like to thank you for your detailed post Adrian. Your time and effort are very much appreciated.

Johnny

[apowell]

Hi Johnny,

You're most welcome and I'm very pleased I was able to help you and your family.

This extract is taken from the CWGC website:

Havrincourt
62nd (2nd West Riding) Division
Faced with a most difficult front it was decided that 62nd Division's attacking brigades should assault from the south-west, advance north-eastwards on both flanks of Havrincourt and then alter direction eastwards to the final objective beyond the front system of the Hindenburg Position. On the right, 186th Brigade's attack (fiercely opposed) gained the Hindenburg front system by 7.30am but it took considerable hard fighting to access the eastern portion of the village which was not reached until 11.30am. On the left, 187th Brigade's advance attracted heavy machine-gun fire, but,following the destruction of this source of opposition (for which Sergeant L Calvert of the 5th King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry was awarded the VC), reached its objective by 7.30am. (See: 'Military Operations. France and Belgium, 1918' (Volume IV), compiled by Brigadier-General Sir James E Edmonds, London, HMSO, 1947, pp.471-472).

John and his comrades would have been in the thick of the fighting advancing against heavy machine gun fire and a member of Johns Battalion was awarded the VC.

I feel very humble and sad when reading what these chaps had to suffer.

Regards
Adrian

[Antie Em]

Hi Johnny,

You're most welcome and I'm very pleased I was able to help you and your family.

This extract is taken from the CWGC website:

Havrincourt
62nd (2nd West Riding) Division
Faced with a most difficult front it was decided that 62nd Division's attacking brigades should assault from the south-west, advance north-eastwards on both flanks of Havrincourt and then alter direction eastwards to the final objective beyond the front system of the Hindenburg Position. On the right, 186th Brigade's attack (fiercely opposed) gained the Hindenburg front system by 7.30am but it took considerable hard fighting to access the eastern portion of the village which was not reached until 11.30am. On the left, 187th Brigade's advance attracted heavy machine-gun fire, but,following the destruction of this source of opposition (for which Sergeant L Calvert of the 5th King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry was awarded the VC), reached its objective by 7.30am. (See: 'Military Operations. France and Belgium, 1918' (Volume IV), compiled by Brigadier-General Sir James E Edmonds, London, HMSO, 1947, pp.471-472).

Gives you goose pimples doesn't it?

John and his comrades would have been in the thick of the fighting advancing against heavy machine gun fire and a member of Johns Battalion was awarded the VC.

I feel very humble and sad when reading what these chaps had to suffer.

Regards
Adrian

[johnny1588]

I found this snippet about Sergeant Laurence Calvert on how he won his VC

CALVERT, Laurence. (reg No. 173)
Sergeant 5th Battalion. The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry.
London Gazetted on 15th November 1918.
Born on 16th February 1892 at Hunslet, Leeds, Yorkshire.
Died on 7th July 1964 at Dagenham, Essex.
Memorial at South Essex Crematorium, Upminster, Essex.
Digest of Citation reads:
On 12th September 1918 at Havrincourt, France, severe enfilade machine-gun fire was creating a difficult situation and Sergeant Calvert went forward alone against a machine gun team, bayoneting three and shooting four. His valour and determination in capturing single-handed two machine-guns and killing the crew ensured the success of the operation. His personal gallantry inspired all ranks.
Additional information:. Sergeant Calvert also held the Military Medal (MM).

Just astonishing bravery!