did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Completed discussions and topics. All topics are locked on archive. Please contact a forum moderator if you'd like a thread reactivated.

Moderators: grangers14, admin, Northern Lass

Locked
Maths girl
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:23 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Gladders Hackett Shakespeare Allport
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Staffordshire Durham
Location: Leicestershire

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Maths girl »

Fatman wrote:hmm thats not them but thanks for looking - if you get a chance, could you also have a look for frederick gowler with a esther or elizabeth living in west ham area?
its her son

appreciate your help!


1911 27 Prestige St Poplar
GOWLER, Frederick Head Married M 41 1870 Labourer Chatteris Cambridge
GOWLER, Elizabeth Wife Married 20 years F 39 1872 Kilburn London N W
GOWLER, Lilian Daughter Single F 18 1893 Counter Hand Woolwich Kent
Top
Maths girl
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:23 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Gladders Hackett Shakespeare Allport
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Staffordshire Durham
Location: Leicestershire

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Maths girl »

Fatman wrote: Cant find a marriage between John Gowler and a Harriet for the relevant dates... But did Harriet marry William's brother John?


I'm pretty sure that it was illegal to marry a dead husband's brother at this time which could be why you can't find the marriage.
Top
Maths girl
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:23 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Gladders Hackett Shakespeare Allport
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Staffordshire Durham
Location: Leicestershire

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Maths girl »

Is this John??

1911 71 Tetley St Poplar
GOWLER, John Head Widower M 56 1855 Labourer General Chatteris Cambs
Top
Maths girl
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:23 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Gladders Hackett Shakespeare Allport
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Staffordshire Durham
Location: Leicestershire

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Maths girl »

So it appears that between 1901 and 1911 Harriet dies? (John- Widower!) and Frederick comes back to claim his wife (Elizabeth) and daughter (Lilian) who are both described as daughters of John and Harriet in 1901!!

1911 71 Tetley St Poplar
GOWLER, John Head Widower M 56 1855 Labourer General Chatteris Cambs

1911 27 Prestige St Poplar
GOWLER, Frederick Head Married M 41 1870 Labourer Chatteris Cambridge
GOWLER, Elizabeth Wife Married 20 years F 39 1872 Kilburn London N W
GOWLER, Lilian Daughter Single F 18 1893 Counter Hand Woolwich Kent
Top
Maths girl
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:23 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Gladders Hackett Shakespeare Allport
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Staffordshire Durham
Location: Leicestershire

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Maths girl »

Maths girl wrote:So it appears that between 1901 and 1911 Harriet dies? (John- Widower!) and Frederick comes back to claim his wife (Elizabeth) and daughter (Lilian) who are both described as daughters of John and Harriet in 1901!!

1911 71 Tetley St Poplar
GOWLER, John Head Widower M 56 1855 Labourer General Chatteris Cambs

1911 27 Prestige St Poplar
GOWLER, Frederick Head Married M 41 1870 Labourer Chatteris Cambridge
GOWLER, Elizabeth Wife Married 20 years F 39 1872 Kilburn London N W
GOWLER, Lilian Daughter Single F 18 1893 Counter Hand Woolwich Kent


Death of Harriet! 1905
Harriet Gowler
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 58
District: Poplar (To 1965)
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 309
Top
Fatman
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:24 am
Primary Surname Interests: Hall, Gowler
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Cambridgeshire, Dartford

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Fatman »

Maths girl wrote:1911 27 Prestige St Poplar
GOWLER, Frederick Head Married M 41 1870 Labourer Chatteris Cambridge
GOWLER, Elizabeth Wife Married 20 years F 39 1872 Kilburn London N W
GOWLER, Lilian Daughter Single F 18 1893 Counter Hand Woolwich Kent


The dates all match, so I assume its them.
This business about, daughter/grand daughter.... Frederick joined the Army at Woolwich, so that maybe gives us a clue that Lilian is his daughter.

The only marriage I can find though is in 1900 - Frederick Gowler to Elizabeth Martha Shaw. West Ham. So that confuses me about the married 20 years bit on the 1911 census?
Top
Maths girl
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:23 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Gladders Hackett Shakespeare Allport
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Staffordshire Durham
Location: Leicestershire

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Maths girl »

Fatman wrote:The only marriage I can find though is in 1900 - Frederick Gowler to Elizabeth Martha Shaw. West Ham. So that confuses me about the married 20 years bit on the 1911 census?


Ok letting my imagination run----I can't find a Lilian Gowler born 1893 but can find

Lilian Mary Shaw
Year of Registration: 1892
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Woolwich
County: Greater London, Kent, London
Volume: 1d
Page: 1238

So was Frederick the father but they didn't marry -- she went to live with his parents while he was away taking the name Gowler for form's sake and then when he came back (older and wiser?) he married Elizabeth but they maintained the 20 years as predating Elizabeth's birth!
Top
Fatman
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:24 am
Primary Surname Interests: Hall, Gowler
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Cambridgeshire, Dartford

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Fatman »

does sound very much like it fits... ill be havikng to order more certs to prove it ;)
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by dianel »

John might not be William's brother. There are an awful lot of Gowlers in Chatteris.

England & Wales Marriages:
Name: William Gowler
Gender: Male
Father's Name: Robert Gowler
Spouse's name: Harriet Clow
Spouse's Father's Name: William Clow
Marriage Date: 11 Sep 1864
Marriage Place: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire, England

This looks like William:
1861
At Hive End, Chatteris, Cambridgeshire
Elizabeth Gowler Head Widow 44 Ag. Labourer b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
William Gowler Son 19 Ag. Labourer b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
Jane Gowler Daur 18 Ag. Labourer b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
Robert Gowler Son 14 Ag. Labourer b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
Elizabeth Gowler Daur 12 Ag. Labourer b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
George Gowler Son 9 b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
John Gowler Son 7 b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris

He does have a brother, John, around the right age.

In 1871 this John is still with his mother, Elizabeth:
At Hive End, Chatteris, Cambridgeshire
Elizabeth Gowler Head 55 Nurse & Charwoman b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
George Gowler Son 18 Ag. Labourer b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
John Gowler Son 16 Ag. Labourer b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
John Blinkhorn Lodger Widwr. 73 Pauper b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris

There is another possible for John:

1861
At Smart's Lane, Chatteris
John Gowler Head 47 Labourer (Farm) b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
Ann Gowler Wife 37 b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
Thomas Gowler Son 17 b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
Eliza Gowler Daur 10 b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
Richard Gowler Son 7 b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
John Gowler Son 6 b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
William Gowler Son 1 b. Cambridgeshire, Chatteris
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
Fatman
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:24 am
Primary Surname Interests: Hall, Gowler
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Cambridgeshire, Dartford

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Fatman »

yeah! its from the chatteris lot that ive got to west ham, and there is loads!!!
Not sure if there is a way I can even find out if theres no marriage...
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by dianel »

1851
At Hive End, Chatteris
John Blinkham (looks like 'Blinkhorn' on image) Head 52 Ag. Labourer b. Chatteris
Ann Blinkham Wife 65 b. Chatteris
William Gowler Grandson 8 b. Chatteris
Mary Walker Visitor 18 b. Chatteris
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
Fatman
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:24 am
Primary Surname Interests: Hall, Gowler
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Cambridgeshire, Dartford

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Fatman »

yep - thats the wiklliam in question and it definitely is blinkhorn
williams mother was their daughter
Top
User avatar
Annie
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:40 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Griffiths,Faulkner, Edwards, Garbett,Green, Lee, Martin,Jones, Smith, Poole
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Saffordshire, Flintshire,Yorkshir, Lancashire Middlesex, Cheshire

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Annie »

Fatman wrote:hmm thats not them but thanks for looking - if you get a chance, could you also have a look for frederick gowler with a esther or elizabeth living in west ham area?
its her son

appreciate your help!



Have you got a date of birth for Frederick Gowler or a date some where near.

Annie
Top
Fatman
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:24 am
Primary Surname Interests: Hall, Gowler
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Cambridgeshire, Dartford

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Fatman »

maths girl very kindly got it for me :

1911 27 Prestige St Poplar
GOWLER, Frederick Head Married M 41 1870 Labourer Chatteris Cambridge
GOWLER, Elizabeth Wife Married 20 years F 39 1872 Kilburn London N W
GOWLER, Lilian Daughter Single F 18 1893 Counter Hand Woolwich Kent
Top
User avatar
Annie
Posts: 4093
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:40 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Griffiths,Faulkner, Edwards, Garbett,Green, Lee, Martin,Jones, Smith, Poole
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Saffordshire, Flintshire,Yorkshir, Lancashire Middlesex, Cheshire

Re: did she marry her dead husbands brother?

Post by Annie »

Pleased to know you have got them.

Annie
Top
Locked

Return to “Archived General Discussion”