Huff

[cmfreeth]

Hi

Thank you so much for sharing the information you have on the William/Mary marriage certificate. My ancestors include William and - I presumed - Mary Ann Hough/Huff.

In 1871 William Crumpton (Poultry dealer), his wife Mary, and my little minx of a great- great grandmother, Emma, were living in Smithfield Passage, Birmingham. I was pretty certain that this Mary was the Mary Anne Huff to be found in the IGI re the marriage of 1856 because they have a relative, Bessy Hough, living with them. (Mary's surname is spelt Hough in the 1851 census). The Crumptons can also be found living in Essex Street in 1861 census.

However, it seems to me that if this is the case, this other nut and bolt forging William/Mary household also present in the 1871 census cannot also be the William Crumpton/Mary Hough couple. This William Crumpton the forger can also be found as a whitesmith in the 1841 census but it would seem his father is John (a rule maker), not William the coach spring maker as suggested in the marriage certificate (in the 1841 census I cannot help but wonder if the 'Mathew' is in fact a corruption of Martha?).

Is there some information I am unaware of that links Julia Harris/Crumpton to the Willian Crumpton & Mary Hough/Huff of the marriage certificate? Otherwise I cannot help but wonder if the parents of Julia Harris are another William Crumpton/Mary couple. Might this also explain why there are children predating the 1856 marriage? Could Flighter on the marriage certificate be read as Poulterer? In the IGI there is a marriage between a William Crumpton and Mary Allen on 23 Apr 1848 at St Phillips B'ham - could these be Julia's parents?

I do apologise if I have muddied things a little or got the wrong end of the stick, which, alas, is rather easy where I am concerned!

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Best wishes

Chrissie

[peterd]

Hi

Thank you so much for sharing the information you have on the William/Mary marriage certificate. My ancestors include William and - I presumed - Mary Ann Hough/Huff.

In 1871 William Crumpton (Poultry dealer), his wife Mary, and my little minx of a great- great grandmother, Emma, were living in Smithfield Passage, Birmingham. I was pretty certain that this Mary was the Mary Anne Huff to be found in the IGI re the marriage of 1856 because they have a relative, Bessy Hough, living with them. (Mary's surname is spelt Hough in the 1851 census). The Crumptons can also be found living in Essex Street in 1861 census.

However, it seems to me that if this is the case, this other nut and bolt forging William/Mary household also present in the 1871 census cannot also be the William Crumpton/Mary Hough couple. This William Crumpton the forger can also be found as a whitesmith in the 1841 census but it would seem his father is John (a rule maker), not William the coach spring maker as suggested in the marriage certificate (in the 1841 census I cannot help but wonder if the 'Mathew' is in fact a corruption of Martha?).

Is there some information I am unaware of that links Julia Harris/Crumpton to the Willian Crumpton & Mary Hough/Huff of the marriage certificate? Otherwise I cannot help but wonder if the parents of Julia Harris are another William Crumpton/Mary couple. Might this also explain why there are children predating the 1856 marriage? Could Flighter on the marriage certificate be read as Poulterer? In the IGI there is a marriage between a William Crumpton and Mary Allen on 23 Apr 1848 at St Phillips B'ham - could these be Julia's parents?

I do apologise if I have muddied things a little or got the wrong end of the stick, which, alas, is rather easy where I am concerned!

Any thoughts would be most welcome.

Best wishes

Chrissie

post what you know of your william asnd we will try to check it out, and welcome to the forum

[dianel]

It seems that there are 2 William and Mary Ann Crumptons being confused here.

The William who married Mary Ann Huff/Hough appears to be the poultry dealer and father of Emma. This is confirmed by the presence of Frederick Hough Brother-in-law, and Bessy Hough, niece in 1871

This family in 1871:
At 23 Smithfield Passage,
William Crumpton Head 46 poultry dealer b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
Mary Crumpton Wife 40 b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
Emma Crumpton Daur 14 warehouse girl b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
Sophia Crumpton Daur 8 b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
Bessy Hough Niece 13 warehouse girl b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
William Crumpton Son 3 months b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
Frederick Hough Brother-in-law 24 Carter (ill at home) b. Warwickshire, Birmingham

The other William and Mary are the parents of Julia:

1871
At Meredith Road (Back of 13), Birmingham
William Crumpton Head 49 Nut & Bolt Forger b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
Mary A Crumpton Wife 46 b. Warwickshire, Birmingham
Emily Crumpton Daur 16 Screw Turner b. Staffs., Tipton
William Crumpton Son 9 Scholar b. Staffs., Tipton
Julia Crumpton Daur 5 Scholar b. Warwickshire, Birmingham

This William appears to be slightly younger than Emma's dad.

So Julia's mum seems not to be Mary Ann Huff/Hough?

What evidence do you have for the name of Julia's mum, Jeff? Marriage certificate? Death?

[dianel]

Possible??
Fox Street, St Peter, Birmingham
?Jno Crompton, 40, ? (Looks like 'Auto') Maker
?, Miner 20 (in 'male' column)
Matthew, 40 (in 'male' column)
William, 20, whitesmith
Sarah, 15,
Frederick, 10,
Emma, 7,
Rowland, 9,
Edwin, 4

I cant see anything for Mary Ann that may help

[dianel]

That marriage to Mary Allen looks worth considering. I found an Ancestry tree with the following:

William Crumpton
Birth 29/9/1821 in Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Parents: John Crumpton (1798) & Mary Ann Sharratt (1804)

Spouse: Mary Allen (1824) [Father: Daniel Allen - Birth: 24 May 1793 in Birminham, Warwickshire, England]
Marriage: 23 Apr 1848
St. Phillips, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Age: 26

Children:
Charles Crumpton June 1851 -
Mary Ann Crumpton 1853 -
Emily Crumpton 1855 -
Elizabeth Crumpton 1858 -
William Crumpton 1862 -
Julia Crumpton 1865 -

[dianel]

In 1841 There is a Mary Allen aged 20 living at Mount St., Birmingham apparently on her own.

[cmfreeth]

My Crumptons are:

1861
Wiliam Crumpton (head), Mar, 29, Poultry Dealer, Bham, Warwick
Mary Crumpton (wife), Mar, 28, Bham Warwick
Wnna Crumpton (dau) 1, Bham Warwick
Essex Street St Thomas Bham

The 1871 is as recorded by dianel

Frustratingly I haven't been able to find these Crumptons in the 1881 census. In later censuses Emma is also a Poultry dealer as was her son Thomas (my great-grandfather).

Incidently, if it helps, my Houghs are as follows
1841
Edgbaston
John Hough 30 Labourer (not brn in Warwickshire)
Maria 30 Warwickshire
Mary 8 Warwickshire
Rachael 6 Warwickshire
Richard 1 Warwickshire

1851
74 Howard Place
John Hough Head Mar 43 brickmaker
Maria Wife mar 43
Mary dau 17
Rachel dau 16
Richard son 12
Ruth dau 10
Frederick Hough son 5
Maria dau 3
All born in Birmingham except John who was born in Leicester

1861
23 Windmill Street
John Hough Head Mar 50 Brick maker
Maria Wife mar 52
Ruth dau unmar 20 Umbrella ?Wire worker
Fredk son unmar 15 cartor
Elizth dau unmar 2
Again, all are listed as born in Birmingham except John (Leicestershire)

All this seems to confirm the info on the marriage certificate.

I cannot as yet find John or Maria in the 1871 census. Presumably the household broke up following their death and hence the youngest two children Elizabeth and Frederick ended up living with William and Mary?

[grangers14]

Post has been split, the other thread archived here,
viewtopic.php?f=72&t=2219
Jo

[peterd]

could be john cannot see maria

Deaths Mar 1867
Hough John 58 Birmingham 6d 54

[Northern Lass]

are you still looking for info on this thread?