*Arc tbc* ----Caroline Butler

[maryann]

I have a copy of a death certificate dated 1879 for John Tandy. The certificate indicates that the informant was a niece, Caroline Walby. I've determined that Caroline b. 1835 was the daughter of Joseph Butler and Jane Bloomer. John Tandy's mother-in-law was Esther Bloomer Gill, but I can't find a connection for Jane Bloomer to that Bloomer family. I'm trying to find how Caroline could be a niece to John Tandy? Help please.

[FarSide]

A lookup may give you the fathers name

Extracted
JOSEPH BUTLER
Marriages:
Spouse: JANE BLOOMER
Marriage: 19 FEB 1811 Saint Thomas, Dudley

[Northern Lass]

hiya not 1811 wont have father on but will have witnesses if you are lucky

[peterd]

ester marriage

ESTHER BLOOMER
JOSEPH GILL
Marriage: 23 JAN 1801 Halesowen, Worcester,

[FarSide]

I see these, are they of any use
1861
Sch #'s 116 to 122
Butchers Lane, Cradley
Jane Butler 66 - Head - Widow - Washerwomen laundress - b Cradley
John Tandy 61 - Widow - Nailor - b Hagley
David Willetts 28 - Labourer iron works - b Halesowen
Phoebe Clift 94 - Widow - b Stourbridge
Phoebe Perrins 62 - unmarried - Nailor - b Cradley
Enoch Cooper 15 - Chainmaker - b Cradley
John Walbey 34 - Labourer forge - b Monmouthshire (can't read if Married or not)

next door
104
Overend
Philip Bloomer 26 - Chainmaker
Emma Bloomer 23 - Nailor
Emeline A Bloomer 2
Rhoda Bloomer 43 - Boarder - Dressmaker
Mary J Bloomer 11 - Nailor
all b Cradley

a couple of doors away
125
James Mason 70 - Widow - Farmer
David Tandy 33 - son in law - Widow - Butcher
Joseph Tandy 8 - grandson
Hannah Tandy 7 - grandaug
Elizabeth Tandy 5 - grandaug
Mary A Smith 16 - Servant - Housemaid
Caroline Cooper 18 - grandaug - Housekeeper - b Kingswinford
others b Cradley

[linell]

Hi Maryann, Jane could be a Sarah Jane, Mary Jane, Rebecca Jane etc. known as Jane? These people had such complicated families, just had a look at the Cradley Vicar's notebook, it is quite scary how they were all connected. Jane Butler was the sister of Phoebe Cliff and the mother of Matthew and Samuel Butler.

1851 Census Butchers Lane
Jane Butler Wid 56 Nailer
Caroline DA U 18 Nailer
John Tandy LG Wid 51 Nailer
Esther Tandy LG U 18 Nailer
John Cooper SL Wid 31 Chainmaker Northfield
Enoch Cooper GS 5
Phoebe Perrins LG U 52 Nailer

Will see if I can find anymore, Linell.

[linell]

Maryann you may already have these 1841 Census entries, it does show how extended their families were.

Overend Cradley
Joseph Butler 55
Jane 45
William 25
Samuel 20
Matthew 15
Rebecca 15
Maria 13
Joseph 9
Caroline 5
Phoebe Perrins 40

Butchers Lane Cradley
Wm Bloomer 75
David Tandy 10
Joseph Gill 20
Matilda Gill 16
James Gill 5 months

Wm Parkes 20
Elizabeth (nee Gill) 20
Ann 7 Months
Esther Gill 60
Daniel Gill 20
Betsey Gill 20
Esther Tandy 5

Just one big extended family. HTH from Linell.

[FarSide]

Jane Butler was the sister of Phoebe Cliff

There's like 28 years between these 2..

[linell]

Hi FS, yes that's what the books says, you have the book FS have a look. Anything is possible, perhaps Father of Phoebe and Jane Married twice, with children born over 30 years. My Gt Gt Gt Grandfather Wm Willetts, Married twice, first child born 1812, last one born 1844 You never know in this game. Best Wishes Linell.

[FarSide]

After you posted, I had a look in my books, and do see what you are talking about, first thought was omg poor mother nearly 30 years of kids, it just seemed a huge time difference, and I do tend to forget to use my wonderful presents, I (computer nerd here) thought about how long it would take me to type it up into a quick (excel) searchable database

[linell]

Hi FS, yes I thought of that too, but what a lot of entering I can't find Phoebe Cliff or Clift in 1841 can you? The Notes say they were Baptists, so we probably won't find any IGI Baps for them. This Phoebe Perrins is connected too, maybe another sister or sister in law? Catch u later, must get off here, best wishes from Linell.

[FarSide]

Poss
1841
Popes? Lane, Oldbury
Pheobe Clifton 70 - Nailor - y b in c
James Lally 25 - Carpenter - I in where born Scotland, Ireland etc..

1851
30
Holy Crop, Clent
George Washington 64 - Ag lab - b Honeybourne, Herefordshire
Phoebe Washington 66 - Pauper - b Clent
Henry Washington 32 - Nailor - b Broom
George Washington 13 - Nailor - b Clent
Phoebe Clift 83 - Lodger - Widow - Pauper - b Oldswinford

[maryann]

Thanks Linell,
Yes, that is the group. This family is a mess. I did find a Jane Bloomer bap. entry 31 July 1791 with parents Thomas Bloomer and Nancy Burton, but can't connect Thomas Bloomer either. Appreciate all the help.
Mary Ann

[linell]

Hi FS, the Holy Cross entry is more likely, Oldbury would have been out of Phoebe's comfort zone. Maryann, I think it would be nigh impossible to track down this Jane Bloomer, they were such a big family, with 2nd Marriages and cousins galore. Will get back to you if anything else turns up. Best Wishes from Linell.

[Northern Lass]

Is this still a Brick Wall?
Or have you solved it?

Unless otherwise advised this will be moved to archived section