Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

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Fatman
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Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Fatman »

Im looking for a Father of Charles Higgs Born around 1845 in Sulhamstead, Berkshire.

Checking the 1851 census, there are 2 Charles Higgs born in Sulhamstead around the time Im looking for:
1) Sulhamstead Bannister
2) Burghfield

Is there anyway I can work it out?
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grangers14
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by grangers14 »

Where was he in 1861? Any family on census with him or near by?
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Maths girl
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Maths girl »

Are these the ones you are looking at in 1851?

1851 Burghfield
HIGGS, Frederick Son M 10 1841 Agricultural Labourer Sulhamstead Berkshire
HIGGS, Charles Son M 6 1845 Scholar Sulhamstead Berkshire
HIGGS, Thomas Head Married M 35 1816 Agricultural Labourer Sulhamstead Berkshire
HIGGS, Hephzebah Wife Married F 34 1817 Woodcote Oxfordshire
HIGGS, Manasseh Son M 1 1850 Sulhamstead Berkshire
HIGGS, George Son M 8 1843 Scholar Sulhamstead Berkshire
HIGGS, Thomas Son M 2 1849 Sulhamstead Berkshire

1851 Sulhamstead Bannister
PEARCE, Ann Lodger Widow F 86 1765 Pauper Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
HERWING, William Lodger Unmarried M 21 1830 Bricklayers Labourer Wallingford Berkshire
HIGGS, Mercy Daughter F 8 1843 Scholar Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
GILLIGAN, Patrick Lodger Married M 27 1824 Bricklayers Labourer Westminster Middlesex
HALLIGAN, John Lodger Unmarried M 16 1835 Bricklayers Labourer Westminster Middlesex
HALLIGAN, John Lodger Married M 47 1804 Bricklayers Labourer Mayo Irl
NARY, Michael Lodger Married M 49 1802 Bricklayers Labourer Ball Irl
HIGGS, Grace Mary Daughter F At Home Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charity Jane Daughter F At Home Sulhamstead BannisterBerkshire
HIGGS, Charles Son M 3 1848 At Home Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
HIGGS, Robert Son M 5 1846 Scholar Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
MACDONALL, Patrick Lodger Unmarried M 26 1825 Bricklayers Labourer Westminster Middlesex
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Maths girl »

1861 Ufton Lane, Sulhamstead Abbots
HIGGS, Charles B Head Married M 44 1817 Garden Labourer Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charity Wife Married F 44 1817 Laundress Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 22 1839 Laundress Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Robert Son Unmarried M 15 1846 Garden Labourer Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charles Son M 13 1848 Agricultural Labourer Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charity J Daughter F 10 1851 Scholar Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Grace M Daughter F 10 1851 Scholar Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, David Son M 9 1852 Scholar Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
HIGGS, Walter H Son M 6 1855 Scholar Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
HIGGS, Esther Daughter F 5 1856 Scholar Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
HIGGS, Alfred John Son M 0 (9M) 1861 Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
HIGGS, Ann Mother Widow F 82 1779 Formerly Schollmistress Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire

1861 Trash Green, Burghfield
STEEL, James L Head Married M 66 1795 Farmer Of 150 Acres Employing 6 Labourers & 3 Boys Streatley Berkshire
STEEL, Sarah Wife Married F 72 1789 Farmers Wife Pangbourne Berkshire
BETT, Thomas H Boarder Unmarried M 29 1832 Land Proprietor & Fund Holder Wexford County of Cork Ireland
WALKER, Fanny A M Servant Unmarried F 31 1830 House Servant Wantage Berkshire
HOLDOWAY, Henry Servant Unmarried M 27 1834 Agricultural Labourer Little London Hampshire
MILES, George Servant Unmarried M 17 1844 Agricultural Labourer Burghfield Berkshire
HIGGS, Charles Servant Unmarried M 15 1846 Agricultural Labourer Sulhamstead Berkshire
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Maths girl »

These match

Maths girl wrote:
1851 Sulhamstead Bannister
PEARCE, Ann Lodger Widow F 86 1765 Pauper Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
HERWING, William Lodger Unmarried M 21 1830 Bricklayers Labourer Wallingford Berkshire
HIGGS, Mercy Daughter F 8 1843 Scholar Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
GILLIGAN, Patrick Lodger Married M 27 1824 Bricklayers Labourer Westminster Middlesex
HALLIGAN, John Lodger Unmarried M 16 1835 Bricklayers Labourer Westminster Middlesex
HALLIGAN, John Lodger Married M 47 1804 Bricklayers Labourer Mayo Irl
NARY, Michael Lodger Married M 49 1802 Bricklayers Labourer Ball Irl
HIGGS, Grace Mary Daughter F At Home Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire age 11 mths on original
HIGGS, Charity Jane Daughter F At Home Sulhamstead BannisterBerkshire age 11 mths on original
HIGGS, Charles Son M 3 1848 At Home Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
HIGGS, Robert Son M 5 1846 Scholar Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
MACDONALL, Patrick Lodger Unmarried M 26 1825 Bricklayers Labourer Westminster Middlesex


Previous page
1851 Sulhamstead Bannister
HIGGS, Berry Son M 10 1841 Scholar Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charles Berry Head Married M 34 1817 Agricultural Labourer Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charity Wife Married F 34 1817 Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire
HIGGS, Ann Daughter F 12 1839 Scholar Sulhamstead Bannister Berkshire

Maths girl wrote:1861 Ufton Lane, Sulhamstead Abbots
HIGGS, Charles B Head Married M 44 1817 Garden Labourer Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charity Wife Married F 44 1817 Laundress Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Ann Daughter Unmarried F 22 1839 Laundress Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Robert Son Unmarried M 15 1846 Garden Labourer Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charles Son M 13 1848 Agricultural Labourer Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Charity J Daughter F 10 1851 Scholar Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, Grace M Daughter F 10 1851 Scholar Sulhamstead Banister Berkshire
HIGGS, David Son M 9 1852 Scholar Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
HIGGS, Walter H Son M 6 1855 Scholar Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
HIGGS, Esther Daughter F 5 1856 Scholar Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
HIGGS, Alfred John Son M 0 (9M) 1861 Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
HIGGS, Ann Mother Widow F 82 1779 Formerly Schollmistress Sulhamstead Abbots Berkshire
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Maths girl »

Any witnesses on Marriage certificates etc? any other clues?
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Fatman »

Those are the 2 records it was between!

There is an R Higgs listed as a witness on his daughters wedding certificate, although that could be Charles Higgs son i guess or any other relation?
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Maths girl »

Fatman wrote:Those are the 2 records it was between!



Which 2 records is what in between?
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Fatman
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Fatman »

Apologies, I meant the 2 census listings you reference in your first post are the 2 I meant in my original message!
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Maths girl »

Fatman wrote:Apologies, I meant the 2 census listings you reference in your first post are the 2 I meant in my original message!


Now I am with you --

Can you list what you know about Charles Higgs born around 1845 -- where you got the info and what other info is on any certificates etc that you have used? Do you have him in later census?
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Fatman
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Fatman »

The information for Charles Higgs came from a listing on his daughters wedding certificate - in this it lists his address as Asylum Cottages Dartford.

Checking the 1891 Census, shows:

3. Asylum Cottages.
HIGGS.
Charles. 43. Engine Driver.B.Berks.Sulhampstead.
Eliza. Wife.33.B.Essex.Kelvendon.
Alfred E.Son.18.Engineer's App.B.Berks.Beenham.
Beatrice Lily.Dau.6mths.B.Dartford.

This is where I am trying to trace him pre marriage and where the confusion comes from.
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grangers14
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by grangers14 »

Not sure if this is them earlier?
Seems a good change of jobs for each census?

1881. St Martins Road, Dartford
Charles Higgs, 33, Stoker at Asylum, Sulhamstead
Ellen, wife, 39, Beenham
Alfred E, son, 8, Beenham

1871. Sevenscombe? West Ham
Thomas J Wilkin, head, 38, Blacksmith, Lynn, Norfolk
Eliza, wife, 37,Lynn, Norfolk
Sarah A, daur, 14, Lynn, Norfolk
Eliza A, daur, 12, Lynn, Norfolk
\Charles Higgs, head, 23, Bootmaker, Sulhamstead
Ellen, wife, 28, Beenham
William C, son, 1, Beenham
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Maths girl »

Fatman wrote:Checking the 1891 Census, shows:

3. Asylum Cottages.
HIGGS.
Charles. 43. Engine Driver.B.Berks.Sulhampstead.
Eliza. Wife.33.B.Essex.Kelvendon.
Alfred E.Son.18.Engineer's App.B.Berks.Beenham.
Beatrice Lily.Dau.6mths.B.Dartford.



grangers14 wrote:1881. St Martins Road, Dartford
Charles Higgs, 33, Stoker at Asylum, Sulhamstead
Ellen, wife, 39, Beenham
Alfred E, son, 8, Beenham


These two look good together but not convinced about the other one Grangers. Looks like he was on a second marriage to me-- Ellen first and then Eliza.

Fatman which daughter got married and when?
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grangers14
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by grangers14 »

I thought it was possibly a 1st marriage to Ellen and then Eliza?
Age and place of birth match for Ellen?
I think its best, always is really, to get a certificate.
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Fatman
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Re: Hmm any way to tell without original certificate!?

Post by Fatman »

Maths girl wrote:Fatman which daughter got married and when?


Jessie Rose Higgs is the daughter who got married in Jul 30 1921 to Hammond Hall - she was born Jan 5 1892 and died oct 5 1968
The Marriage was witnessed by S Hall and R Higgs
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