*Arc tbc* --Help Sorting out Benjamin Shakepears snr and jnr

[Northern Lass]

Putting this on a seperate post from the BC shakespears so it doesnt get more confusing

SS has a Benjamin Shakespear that marries an Elizabeth Brettle 24th Sep 1835 with a witness Sarah Shakespeare.

We have had a look and there was a marriage for a Sarah Shakespear to a William Horton and I attach the link here....

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =730426478

On the 1841 census there is an older Benjamin and Elizabeth aged 60 at Holly Hall- living near William Horton and Sarah Horton.
We think this is the dau of Benj and Eliz (snr) and that she is the witness at the wedding of Benjamin who married Eliz Brettle.
So Benj jnrs sister.
does that make sense?

can we place this Benjamin snr in the Shakespear tree?

any thoughts please

[Northern Lass]

1841 Holly Hall Dudley
Benjamin Shakespear 60 nailer y
Elizabeth Shakespear 60 y
Hannah Shakespear 15 y
Susannah Shakespear 10 y
Maraiah 15 y
ann attwood 1 y

So are these lot grandchildren and who do they belong to?

On the opposite page...

1841 Holly Hall Dudley
William Horton 20 coal miner y
Sarah Horton 15 y
nk 3wks y

[Northern Lass]

Maybe a marriage or baptism for this Benjamin and Elizabeth

[mallosa]

Could this be them?

Benjamin Shakepear
Spouse: ELIZABETH MATTHEWS
Marriage: 21 JUL 1799 Kingswinford, Stafford

Extracted

[Northern Lass]

SARAH SHAKESPEAR
Christening: 31 MAR 1822 Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester,

Father: BENJN. SHAKESPEAR
Mother: ELIZTH.
Extracted

[peterd]

came across this


''1841 census

Chapel St Dudley ( about 2 miles from Woodside)

Benjamin Shakespeare 25 nailor
Elizabeth 25
Joseph 5
David 3
Sarah Ann 1
All born in county



In 1851 Benjamin is at Woodside and Elizabeth is 'on the sea'. Someone suggested to me that it wasn't actually sea, but C, meaning the cut or canal. They also had Edward and Richard Brettle aged 16 and 14 staying with them - Elizabeth nee Brettle's nephews or out of wedlock children, perhaps?''

[Northern Lass]

Think SS is the best one to answer this as this is her Benjamin!


Here he is on Connections
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... onnections

This is the one that on his marriage cert had the witness as Sarah Shakespear.
Hence the marriage of William Horton and Sarah Shakespeare- her father is Benjamin a Horse nail maker here...
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... onnections

So we are leaning towards the view that Sarah is the sister of the Benj you flag Pd but not sure

[Silver surfer]

Thanks for the interest folks. Ben's parents have been an ongoing issue, so if could crack this it would be great.
I also believe it was "on the C" for canal for Elizabeth Brettle's birthplace as in 1860 twins Simon and David were born at Stapleford Notts(I'm pretty sure they were twins) and 1861 census has her as working "on the C" (or sea as they put it).

One idea is that his parents were Edward and Mary née Boxley as the area of Woodside and occupation of pipe moulders ran through the family, and there is a bpt 1814 for a Benjamin with those parents. Non found for Benjamin with parents B & E c1812. Unless you know otherwise of course.

[Northern Lass]

Just for ref for those that dont know.... Edward is the brother of my Ann Shakespear and both the only kids of Ferdinando Shakeapeare married to Sarah Ruston.

If we could place that Benj snr in the Shakespear tree might help with maybe Sarah and Benj not as sibs but as cousins?

[Northern Lass]

Just been looking at this Shakespeare lot for Edward Shakespeare and Mary Boxley. One of their daus Mary b abt 1817 marries a Daniel Grainger. Now I think this is the brother of William Grainger who marries Sarah Round dau of Ann Shakespear ( Ann is the sister of Edward Shakespeare)

Now the interesting thing is that the parents of Daniel and William are I believe an Isaac Grainger and Sarah Lilley. So linked to SS's line of Shakespeare we have the name Lilley coming in and with the Edward and Mary Boxley the name Lilley.
Just wondered how this Sarah Lilley might connect to SS's Lilleys -tenuous link I know but could be that Benjamins line of Shakespearses related somehow to this Lilley line

[Silver surfer]

I'm confused.com

[Silver surfer]

Just found this in my notes.

Mary was one of the first children recorded as being baptised at Woodside. It states she was born 29th Aug 1815 and bpt 31 March 1819. She was the daughter of Edward and Mary Shakespeare.

died between 1881-91 census. found a death at Sourbridge Mar qtr 1890 aged 75yrs. ref 6c 151

[peterd]

why done you find benjamin srn death send for his death cert informent might be ben jrn or another kid but you should get an address out of it might match to a census ?

[Silver surfer]

Can anyone find this couple in 1851. Ages prob rounded down to 60 in 1841, so one or the other could have died by 1851. If he died 1841-51 there are 2 poss at Dudley and one at Kingswinford. Haven't pursued this couple yet as thought parents may have been Edward and Mary.

[Silver surfer]

Think this may be Elizabeth widow of Benjamin in 1861 as living 2 doors away in 1841. So now we have a more accurate birth year (hopefully).

Residence Detail
23 WOODSIDE


Given Name Family Name Relation Condition Age
RICHARD WOOD Head Married 50 yrs
ELIZABETH WOOD Wife " 52 yrs
HARRIET WOOD Daughter Unmarried 12 yrs
ELIZABETH SHAKESPEAR Widow Unmarried 84 yrs

Dont know why it says UNmar!!
So is Ben alive in 1851, please, anyone?

RICHARD WOOD
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH SHAKESPEAR Family
Marriage: 15 SEP 1833 Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester, England