Family of Henry Harris (b 1816, m Phoebe Raybould 1839

[chrisg]

I am fairly certain that Henry had at least 6 siblings - Edward (abt 1809), Ruben (abt 1811), Lucy (abt 1813), Elizabeth (abt 1815), Rhoda (abt 1819) and Mary Ann (abt 1821); plus possibly Hannah (abt 1803), but there is a long gap before Edward. All these were christened in Cradley with parents John and Mary. In the 1841 census Ruben, Rhoda and Mary Ann were with their parents in Colley Gate, Cradley. John's age was given as 60. Mary appears on the 1851 Census as a widow, born in Stourbridge and living with Mary Ann and her husband Frederick Dunn.

I am struggling to find/confirm John and Mary's marriage. On IGI there is one in 1803 in Halesowen (Mary Harris), which could tie in with Hanah's birth; there is also one in 1808 in Upper Arley (Mary Stokes) which could tie in with the rest of the children, but why marry there? There is also a Mary Ann Hall on an Ancestry tree, but with no source citation. I suppose that the 1st Mary may have died after the 1st child then John married another Mary?? Unfortunately IGI Cradley marriages before 1802 and no John's anyway.

Has anybody got any info which might help please?

Thanks, Chris

[peterd]

so its harris were looking for

extracted

PHEBE RAYBOULD
HENRY HARRIS
Marriage: 25 NOV 1839 Saint Thomas, Dudley,

[peterd]

HENRY HARRIS
Christening: 12 JAN 1817 Cradley, Worcester,

Father: JOHN HARRIS
Mother: MARY



poss siblings

HANNAH HARRIS
Christening: 04 SEP 1803 Cradley, Worcester,

EDWARD HARRIS
Christening: 12 FEB 1809 Cradley, Worcester,

RUBEN HARRIS
Christening: 04 JUN 1811 Cradley, Worcester,

LUCY HARRIS
Christening: 18 APR 1813 Cradley, Worcester,

ELIZABETH HARRIS
Christening: 19 MAR 1815 Cradley, Worcester,

RHODA HARRIS
Christening: 21 MAR 1819 Cradley, Worcester,

MARY ANN HARRIS
Christening: 28 JAN 1821 Cradley, Worcester,

[peterd]

poss marriage if hannah is theres ?


JOHN HARRIS
MARY HARRIS
Marriage: 20 FEB 1803 Halesowen, Worcester

[FarSide]

poss marriage if hannah is theres ?


JOHN HARRIS
MARY HARRIS
Marriage: 20 FEB 1803 Halesowen, Worcester

20 Feb 1803
John Harris, otp, wdr & Mary Harris, otp, sp
by WS (Vicar)
Banns
Wit - Wm Beasley & Richard Fiddian

[linell]

HENRY HARRIS
Christening: 12 JAN 1817 Cradley, Worcester,

Father: JOHN HARRIS
Mother: MARY



poss siblings

HANNAH HARRIS
Christening: 04 SEP 1803 Cradley, Worcester,

EDWARD HARRIS
Christening: 12 FEB 1809 Cradley, Worcester,

RUBEN HARRIS
Christening: 04 JUN 1811 Cradley, Worcester,

LUCY HARRIS
Christening: 18 APR 1813 Cradley, Worcester,

ELIZABETH HARRIS
Christening: 19 MAR 1815 Cradley, Worcester,

RHODA HARRIS
Christening: 21 MAR 1819 Cradley, Worcester,

MARY ANN HARRIS
Christening: 28 JAN 1821 Cradley, Worcester,

I think the Baps above are different parents. I looked them up in the Cradley Register, the ones before 1813 give no details except son or daughter John and Mary Harris. Lucy's Baptism in 1813 says d of John and Mary Harris Gunsmith Cradley. The Baptism for Elizabeth in 1815 says d of John and Mary Harris Halesowen Nailer. Rhoda's in 1819 says John and Mary Harris Upper End Nailer. (Upper End was part of the Township of Cradley) Mary Ann's Baptism in 1819 says the same John and Mary Harris Upper End Cradley.

Not all Halesowen and Cradley Marriages are on the IGI. I have Gt Gt Gt Grandparents from Cradley they Married about 1795 I've never found their Marriage, yet I am sure they were Married. HTH from Linell.

[linell]

Hi Chris, you found Rueben, Rhoda and Mary Ann on the 1841 Census with John and Mary in Colley Gate, so John the Nailer from Upper End must be your John and wife Mary. There is a very likely Marriage at Clent which is only up the road from Cradley: John Harris and Mary Chandler Married 24.6.1811 which could be your John and Mary with son Reuben born 1811.

The 1782 Cradley Field and House Survey which was done for the Enclosure Act lists these Harris's-
John Harris Occupier John Grovenor Land Owner Colley Gate House and Buildings
John Harris Occupier John Grovenor Land Owner Colley Gate Tenement and Garden
John Harris Occupier Ferdiland Smith Esq. Land Owner Upper End Tenement and Garden
John Harris Occupier Thoms Biggs Land Owner (just says Land i.e. just rented some Land)
John Harris Occupier Brettell the Blacksmith Land Owner Land.
Elizabeth Harris Widow Occupier John Grovenor Land Owner Colley Gate Tenement and Garden.

These John's could be one of the same, one at Colley Gate and one at Upper End? Both renting property and land.

This confirms that your John Harris must have had a father John I would think, and that Elizabeth Widow Harris also from Colley Gate could be another generation back? Sorry hope this doesn't confuse you even more Linell.

[linell]

Oh sorry forgot this one:-

HENRY HARRIS
Christening: 12 JAN 1817 Cradley, Worcester,

Entry says son of John and Mary Harris Cradley Nailer.

Do you have Henry and Phoebe in 1851 Chris?

Linell.

[linell]

1851 High Town Cradley

HARRIS, Henry Head Married M 34 1817 Horse Nail Maker
Cradley
Worcestershire
HARRIS, Phoebe Wife Married F 30 1821 Nailor
Cradley
Worcestershire
HARRIS, Elizabeth Daughter Unmarried F 8 1843
Cradley
Worcestershire
HARRIS, Rhoda Daughter F 6 1845 Scholar
Cradley
Worcestershire
HARRIS, Sarah S Daughter F 3 1848
Cradley
Worcestershire
HARRIS, James Son M 1 1850
Cradley
Worcestershire

[linell]

I found Henry and Phoebe listed in the Cradley Vicar's Notebook of 1857:-
High Town Henry Harris Nailer No Church (which means he was probably Non Conformist) Phoebe Baptist has taken the Sacrament. Elizabeth 16 June Nailer Baptist School has taken the Sacrament, Immersed 1857. Rhoda 14 September Nailer Baptist School Baptised by Rev James Hesselgrave Thompson (so Rhoda was baptised in the C of E Church.) Sarah Sophia 10 November Nurse Baptist School also baptised by the Rev JHT. James 7 February Chains Baptist School also baptised by JHT. Harry 5 October Baptist School. Lydia 3 October. Joseph Infant born December. Rhoda wishes to attend School.

Looks like the family were a mix of Baptist and C of E faiths Chris

Linell.

[kdw]

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... d=55644376
This is the link for Henry

Other possibles on BCC
Hannah
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... d=41175916

Edward
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =844085600

Reuben
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =660852730

[chrisg]

Wow - so many responses, and you all start so early! Thanks.

I have all the census info for Henry & Phoebe through to 1901. They were my ggg-grandparents via daughter Rhoda.

Linell - interesting info from the christening records re occupations (it's a pity that the IGI records don't hold occupation etc) ; I was a little concerned that there may be more than one family, although I suppose John may have changed trade. The Mary Chandler marriage looks to be a possibility; I found a christening for a Mary Chandler on IGI at Halesowen 9th Sept. 1787. This could match well with the John Harris Halesowen christening on 11th March 1781 - the only problem there is that no father is listed. Does the Clent marriage, show occupation and where they were from?

Chris

[Northern Lass]

So we can update Henrys baptism info and we can add those children for a John and Mary as sibs the ones for nailer cradley?
yes?

will get that clent marriage min...

[Northern Lass]

Ok Clent marriage

24 June 1811 St Leonard Clent
John Harris bach of the parish of Rowley Regis
and
Mary X Chandler wid ots
by banns
Wit - John X Weston / Jephthah Craddock ( he is on a few)

[Northern Lass]

So we can add Rhoda she is witness at marriage for Henry

Marriage info by Jan
25 Nov 1839 St Thomas Dudley
Henry Harris X - full age- bach- nailer- Netherton - John Harris- nailer
Phoebe Raybould- full age- spinster- Netherton- James Raybould- nailer
Wit- James Wallis/ Rhoda Harris X


adding others
if I make an error let me know pls....