TWINS?

[watters2831]

i have been researching some of my ancestors and i believe i may have found 2 sets of twins , but the thing that is puzzling me , is that the first set were born in Burnley , Lancahire , in the same quarter of the same year , but have DIFFERENT GRO index numbers , but the 2nd set of twins were born in Blackburn , Lancashire in the same quarter of the same year in 1862 but with the SAME GRO index number . Can they both be twins?

[Maths girl]

I thought that twins have different GRO numbers and so am wondering whether the set you think have the same GRO numbers have been mistranscribed somewhere along the way -- I have a similar situation in my family where the same GRO number actually refers to two different transcriptions of the same birth.

Usually but not always multiple births have a time written on the certificate so that the "oldest" child can be identified as necessary in later years. Just to confuse matters it is sometimes omitted and sometimes an enthusastic registrar included it anyway but ....

[watters2831]

thanks maths girl

first of all i do not have any of the birth/death certificates to confirm anything

the later set of children are girls both girls have the same surname (ormerod) , and both have the same mothers former surname (walton) , both born in the same quarter of the same year (1862) and born in the same district both with the same GRO index number (8e 360) i just assumed they'd be twins , unfortunatley one of them died in the same quater of the same year, so she doesn't appear on any other census

the first pair are brothers , no mothers surname available , born in the same quarter of the same year in the same district but with different GRO index numbers , but both lived into adulthood and appear on 1861to 1901 census but are 1 year apart on each one

[Maths girl]

thanks maths girl

first of all i do not have any of the birth/death certificates to confirm anything

the later set of children are girls both girls have the same surname (ormerod) , and both have the same mothers former surname (walton) , both born in the same quarter of the same year (1862) and born in the same district both with the same GRO index number (8e 360) i just assumed they'd be twins , unfortunatley one of them died in the same quater of the same year, so she doesn't appear on any other census

the first pair are brothers , no mothers surname available , born in the same quarter of the same year in the same district but with different GRO index numbers , but both lived into adulthood and appear on 1861to 1901 census but are 1 year apart on each one

Out of interest how do you know the mother's surname without being in possession of their birth certificates as the mother's maiden name does not appear on the index until about 1912/13.

[Maths girl]

I thought that twins have different GRO numbers and so am wondering whether the set you think have the same GRO numbers have been mistranscribed somewhere along the way -- I have a similar situation in my family where the same GRO number actually refers to two different transcriptions of the same birth.

Usually but not always multiple births have a time written on the certificate so that the "oldest" child can be identified as necessary in later years. Just to confuse matters it is sometimes omitted and sometimes an enthusastic registrar included it anyway but ....

Sorry watters I got that wrong -- I looked iton it a bit more and the GRO number gives the page that the entries were made in the register sent up for transcribing so Alice and Mary might well be twins as they were registered consecutively. Are the boys consecutive GRO numbers could they have had to turn over the page to register the second one?

[watters2831]

no , there is about 30 numbers between them , their mothers maiden name was walton , and there is a site called Lancashire GRO its free to use and you can narrow down searches by inputting the mothers maiden name, it appears for the girls , but not for the boys

[Maths girl]

no , there is about 30 numbers between them

Could be cousins??

[Maths girl]

Help required please from those that know these things.

Do twins always appear with either the same GRO number or consecutive ones or can they be a long way apart?

[watters2831]

yes , i have thought that , but it would say cousin as a nephew on the relation to head on the census , wouldnt it????

[Maths girl]

yes , i have thought that , but it would say cousin as a nephew on the relation to head on the census , wouldnt it????

It should but they didn't always get these things right -- if only they did our trees would be so much simpler to sort -- but probably not so much fun!

[watters2831]

true

[Maths girl]

the first pair are brothers , no mothers surname available , born in the same quarter of the same year in the same district but with different GRO index numbers , but both lived into adulthood and appear on 1861to 1901 census but are 1 year apart on each one

So Supposing they are brothers but are consistantly given ages one year apart on census what if twins were born ,, one died having been named and the following year they had another son who they named/called after the dead one. - ie could be registered as different but called by dead twin in every day life? Have you looked for death in year foolowing birth of "twins" and possible birth year later?

[Jimmy]

Can you post the details that you have.

[watters2831]

yes , what do you need to know?

[watters2831]

isaac ormerod born jan/feb/mar 1856 in padiham , burnley lancashire GRO index 8e190
james ormerod born jan/feb/mar 1856 in padiham, burnley lancashire GRO index 8e 164

alice ormerod born oct/nov/dec 1862 in blackburn GRO index 8e360
mary ormerod born oct/nov/dec 1862 in blackburn GRO index 8e360

mary died oct/nov/dec 1862 GRO index 8e 253

parents names , thomas and nancy (nee walton) ormerod