Richard Summers 1847

[cid]

Hi folks,

Just checking some of my BCC info. There are 2 Richard Summers born 1847 on BCC. Is it the same person?

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =644704309

and

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =644704309

The Summers and Garratt families connect, but the Richard who marries Phoebe Garratt does not have Maria Summers (who marries Samuel Garratt - Phoebes brother) as his sister.

Does that make sense

Cid

[Northern Lass]

Look like different fathers cid


one has father Thomas one JOhn

Married 11 June 1866 St Edmund Dudley
Richard Summers X age 21 Bachelor Labourer Dudley John Summers Labourer
Phoebe Garratt X age 19 Spinster Dudley Shelah Garratt Horse Nail Maker

Witness
Julius Garratt X
Sarah Garratt X

[Northern Lass]

Something aint rite though is it

is he a John Thomas Summers the father??

the maria Summers with bro Richard has father Thomas

Married 21 April 1862 St John the Evangelist Kates Hill Dudley
Samuel Garratt X age 19 Bachelor Nailer Dudley Shelah Garratt Nailer
Maria Summers X age 18 Dudley Thomas Summers Labourer

Witness
John Leach X
Sarah Garratt X


1851 Netherton Hill, Dudley
Thomas Summers 50 - Labourer - b Bayton?
Ann Summers 40 - b Rock
William Summers 20 - Miner - b Stourport
Elizabeth Summers 14 - Nailor - b Hasbury
John Summers 10 - b Chibery
Maria Summers 6 - b Pensut?
Richard Summers 4 - b Netherton


the Richard married Phobe Garratt has John

Married 11 June 1866 St Edmund Dudley
Richard Summers X age 21 Bachelor Labourer Dudley John Summers Labourer
Phoebe Garratt X age 19 Spinster Dudley Shelah Garratt Horse Nail Maker

Witness
Julius Garratt X
Sarah Garratt X

1871 Suns? Lane, Dudley

Hannah Garratt 50 - Widow - Nailor
Elizabeth Garratt 19 - Nailor
[b]Richard Summers 23 - Boarder - Coalminer
Phoebe Summers 24 - Nailor
Thomas Summers 2
William Summers 9 months
John Garratt 68 - Lodger - Nailor
all b Netherton[/b]

1881 Simms Lane Dudley, Worcester,

Richard SUMMERS 31 Netherton, Worcester, Coal Miner
Pheobe SUMMERS 34 Netherton, Worcester,
Thomas SUMMERS 12 Netherton, Worcester, Scholar
Charles SUMMERS 8 Netherton, Worcester, Scholar
Mary SUMMERS 6 Netherton, Worcester, Scholar
Richard SUMMERS 2 Netherton, Worcester,
Shelah SUMMERS 1 m Netherton, Worcester,


I think it should be Thomas
maybe a mistake in PR

needs rechecking
they call son Thomas

I think we connect up with note

[Northern Lass]

we have Thomas and wife ann here...

1851 Netherton Hill, Dudley
Thomas Summers 50 - Labourer - b Bayton?
Ann Summers 40 - b Rock
William Summers 20 - Miner - b Stourport
Elizabeth Summers 14 - Nailor - b Hasbury
John Summers 10 - b Chibery
Maria Summers 6 - b Pensut?
Richard Summers 4 - b Netherton

then where are they????


then here with Ann widow

1881 Hill Street Dudley, Worcester
Ann SUMMERS Head W Female 70 Rock, Worcester, No Trade
Joseph SMITH Lodger U Male 32 Netherton, Worcester, Clay Getter
Nailey HAMPTON Lodger W Male 50 Netherton, Worcester, Glead Burner (Coke)
Eliza HAMPTON Lodger Female 9 Netherton, Worcester,Scholar
John GARRATT Grandson U Male 18 Netherton, Worcester, Blast Furnace Man (I)
Sarahan GARRATT Grand Daur U Female 16 Netherton, Worcester, Nail Maker

[cid]

Hi NL

I've got all the same info as you have above. But I'm sure that I found them in 1861 with Ann and Thomas living seperately. I can't find them on FMP in 1861, so I'm thinking that it may have been FreeCen.
I have a copy of the marriage cert for Maria Summers and Samuel Garratt. The writing is not very good and her fathers name has been abbreviated to Thos, but it is quite hard to make out.

Think this is them, what do you reckon?

1861 Netherton Hill
GARRATT John Head M M 51 House Nail Maker Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
SOMERS Ann Servnt - F 49 House Keeper Worcestershire - Rock no condition given
SOMERS John Son U M 20 Collier Shropshire - Cleobury
SOMERS Maria Dau U F 15 Nailor Worcestershire - -


1861 Netherton Hill Croft

SOMERS Thomas Head M M 50 Waggoner Worcestershire - Whitby
SOMERS William Son U M 29 Soldier Worcestershire - Stourport
SOMERS Richard Son - M 12 Coal Miner Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
PORTMAN William Sonlaw M M 24 Stone Miner Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
PORTMAN Elizabeth Dau M F 24 Nailor Worcestershire - Dudley
PORTMAN William Grnson - M 11m Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley

Cid

[Northern Lass]

rite I think we go with Thomas as the father and John is an error

anyone any thoughts

[Northern Lass]

1861 Netherton Hill
GARRATT John Head M M 51 House Nail Maker Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
SOMERS Ann Servnt - F 49 House Keeper Worcestershire - Rock no condition given
SOMERS John Son U M 20 Collier Shropshire - Cleobury
SOMERS Maria Dau U F 15 Nailor Worcestershire - -


1861 Netherton Hill Croft

SOMERS Thomas Head M M 50 Waggoner Worcestershire - Whitby
SOMERS William Son U M 29 Soldier Worcestershire - Stourport
SOMERS Richard Son - M 12 Coal Miner Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
PORTMAN William Sonlaw M M 24 Stone Miner Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
PORTMAN Elizabeth Dau M F 24 Nailor Worcestershire - Dudley
PORTMAN William Grnson - M 11m Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley

Cid

1871 Suns? Lane, Dudley

Hannah Garratt 50 - Widow - Nailor
Elizabeth Garratt 19 - Nailor
Richard Summers 23 - Boarder - Coalminer
Phoebe Summers 24 - Nailor
Thomas Summers 2
William Summers 9 months
John Garratt 68 - Lodger - Nailor
all b Netherton

that John Garratt clinches it

[cid]

Well, no wonder I couldn't find hem on FMP, just had another look and searched for others in the same household.

1861

Ann Somers has been transcribed as Ann Garratt - her son John and daughter Maria have not been transcribed at all When I looked at the original image John Garratt and Ann are at the bottom of the page so John and Maria Somers should be at the top of the next image, but they're not - any ideas They must be on the pages that FreeCen have so why not FMP?

Thomas, William and Richard Somers have been transcribed as EVANS!!!!!! Have looked at image and it's not Evans - have reported it to FMP.

Thomas is described as a widow, and Ann as a housekeeper!!!

It looks like Ann Somers and John Garratt were - dare I say it - living together.

Cid

[Northern Lass]

Well, no wonder I couldn't find hem on FMP, just had another look and searched for others in the same household.

1861

Ann Somers has been transcribed as Ann Garratt - her son John and daughter Maria have not been transcribed at all When I looked at the original image John Garratt and Ann are at the bottom of the page so John and Maria Somers should be at the top of the next image, but they're not - any ideas They must be on the pages that FreeCen have so why not FMP?

Thomas, William and Richard Somers have been transcribed as EVANS!!!!!! Have looked at image and it's not Evans - have reported it to FMP.

Thomas is described as a widow, and Ann as a housekeeper!!!

It looks like Ann Somers and John Garratt were - dare I say it - living together.

Cid

I have linked this now

Cid can you go in and amend the census info to what the original says!
cos thought that was the original you presented

we need to put what is on the original
can someone show it pls and we can alter

interesting

[cid]

Well maybe I misjudged them........

1871 at Hill Street, Netherton

SUMMERS, James Head M 68 1803 Waggonner - looks like - Witley Worcestershire
SUMMERS, Ann Wife F 56 1815 Rock Worcestershire
PORTMAN, Mary Ann Boarder F 8 1863 Netherton Worcestershire

Ages are a bit out and now Thomas appears to be James but the Portman connection is there,

Ideas please

Cid

[cid]

I have linked this now

Cid can you go in and amend the census info to what the original says!
cos thought that was the original you presented

we need to put what is on the original
can someone show it pls and we can alter

interesting

Will do NL

Sos about the FreeCen info, they don't have images had to wait til I got home to look at images. Will add info to BCC now

Cid


Have added a note in census info for 1861 that John and Maria are not on the pages that I can see. All the rest of the info is correct to the original. I will do more digging.

Cid

[Northern Lass]

rite I am lost on this now
prob cos my head is full of umpteen lookups

Ok I have linked Richard to Thomas and ann
I think that PR is wrong

or....John is his father....John Garratt

interesting....

so need on BCC the EXACT INFO ADDING TO NOTES ....Cid you on the case?



do step in here anyone...

[cid]

rite I am lost on this now
prob cos my head is full of umpteen lookups

Ok I have linked Richard to Thomas and ann
I think that PR is wrong

or....John is his father....John Garratt

interesting....

so need on BCC the EXACT INFO ADDING TO NOTES ....Cid you on the case?



do step in here anyone...

All census info on looks ok to the images, have added a note re John and Maria in 1861 - here http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =734021839

Not added 1871 info til I get the go ahead.

You're lost !!!!!

think Richard is Thomas's son as they are all togehter in 1851 - 4 years after Richard's birth.
1861 Ann is living with John Garratt, on the image she is down as a housekeeper NOT wife. Thomas is with his children, including Richard.
1871 They appear to be back together, although Thomas is now named James.........and the ages are out a bit. But they do have the Portman grandchild living with them albeit down as a lodger.....

Someone get me an ancestor SatNav

[Northern Lass]

Ok can you add the 1871 pls to the notes Cid on BCC

Can you check that what we have in notes on BCC is correct too

1861 Netherton Hill
GARRATT John Head M M 51 House Nail Maker Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
SOMERS Ann Servnt - F 49 House Keeper Worcestershire - Rock no condition given

The following 2 are on FreeCen transcription but I can`t see them on image - will look at discs and get back asap Cid
SOMERS John Son U M 20 Collier Shropshire - Cleobury
SOMERS Maria Dau U F 15 Nailor Worcestershire - -

Richard is with Thomas here.....

1861 Netherton Hill Croft
SOMERS Thomas Head M M 50 Waggoner Worcestershire - Whitby
SOMERS William Son U M 29 Soldier Worcestershire - Stourport
SOMERS Richard Son - M 12 Coal Miner Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
PORTMAN William Sonlaw M M 24 Stone Miner Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley
PORTMAN Elizabeth Dau M F 24 Nailor Worcestershire - Dudley
PORTMAN William Grnson - M 11m Worcestershire - Netherton Dudley

not sure why not together but that John Garratt is with Richard and Phoebe later here....

1871 Simms? Lane, Dudley
Hannah Garratt 50 - Widow - Nailor
Elizabeth Garratt 19 - Nailor
Richard Summers 23 - Boarder - Coalminer
Phoebe Summers 24 - Nailor
Thomas Summers 2
William Summers 9 months
John Garratt 68 - Lodger - Nailor all b Netherton


So one question where are Maria and that John on 1861?
cos you said Thomas is with the children in 1861 does that mean with maria and John
I want the notes to reflect the images/census

and I have lost it with this lot

[cid]

Ok NL. I have been c.i.d.ing

1861

On FreeCen John and Maria Somers are with their mother Ann Somers and John Garratt. But you cannot see the actual images on FreeCen. But I don't see how they could make them up and get the info right.
On FMP John Garratt and Ann Somers are the only two transcribed as living in the house. (She is transcribed as Ann Garratt but the image says Somers, I have told FMP). They are on the bottom of the page.
The ref. number at the start of the line is 354.
On FreeCen the ref. nos. show that this family crosses over to the next page, when I view the next image on FMP the numbers do not carry on........so I think that FMP must have a page missing.

I have the actual Staffs Discs, so had a look at them and low and behold entry no. 354 is at the bottom of one page and the top of the next, and there is John and Maria Somers in the same house as John Garratt and Ann Somers.

I think that clinches it and will amend BCC later if you agree. I will aso add the 1871 as that looks good too.

Enough detective work for this morning, I'm off to have a coffee

Cid