*Arc tbc* -----PR connec to 1841 Census?

[Paul-E]

My GGGG grandfather I reckon was born around 1781. I cannot say exact date due to the fact I think I have found him in 1841 census aged 60 but this age has more than likely been 'rounded up'. He is also listed as been born in same county he is living.....BlockHouse WORCESTER. I also have a Parish Record showing his and my GGGG grandmothers marriage in 1809 (witnesses are clarks). IGI records of their childrens christenings between 1810 & 1816. I also have his death in 1844 (waiting for death cert to confirm). However I cannot find anything on his birth or baptism in Worcester IGI around 1760-1790. I have tried variations of surname but no joy at all on IGI. I do have a few possibles in Gloucester but with only an approx birth date and no parent names how might I proove the link between the man listed in 1841 census and a Parish christening? I am worried that in 1841 he is listed as being born in same county yet no sign of him...Is IGI for worcester complete or do I need to delve deeper into Parish records that may not be on IGI?

Checked all children to William and Sarah and who was living with them in 1841 1851 1861 census . No grandparents or parents with them.

Thanks
Paul

[MarkCDodd]

I.G.I has quite a few parishes missing in Staffordshire, Worcestershire and Warwickshire.

What is his full name and I will have a look at my set, that covers many of those missing on I.G.I.

[Paul-E]

Many thanks Mark,

That is a very kind offer which I appreciate very much.

May I first ask if the missing/ up-to-date records may be available to purchase anywhere either cd's and/or books? Or even a list of what is or is not up-to-date (Worcester) on IGI? If not and as I am a distance from Worcester I may take you up on that very kind offer.

I have googled Parish Records for Worcester but there are so many books/cd's for sale I would not have a clue the best ones to get and if I have covered all areas? I suppose it would be too good to be true to think there is a book or CD out there that covered the whole of Worcester Parish Records of births/christenings, marraiges and deaths in one foul swoop! Though births will do for now!

Please do not take this the wrong way, but rather than sit back and have someone else do work for me I would like to try and progress as much as possible. As well as doing family tree with copies of parish records and certificates as proof I am also trying to have as much source info in books and on data CD as I can. Perhaps I am weird but I do like going through books and data cd's reading other peoples past as well as the people I am looking for, find it very interesting Maybe one day I will build up a good collection and be able to make kind offers as you have here.

Paul

[MarkCDodd]

Your problem is you do not know what parish he is from.

Try GENUKI for an idea of what is online etc.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/

Some of their entries are a bit out of date.

Cyndi's list is also worth looking at

http://www.cyndislist.com/

The West Midlands and Birmignham societies can also help.

http://www.bmsgh.org/

The advantage of having a collection of the PDF records on your machine is you can do an Adobe Reader search across the entire collection.

i.e If you know the parents are Fred and Wilma you can look for "of Fred & Wilma Smith" across the entire collection.

[Paul-E]

Thanks for that MarkCDodd,

I did not realise the amount of parishes there were to search through until I checked out the info on the sites you listed.

Carrying on the search through last weekend (and the weeks before that) has got me know where nearer finding birth/christening info I require.

If possible can I take you up on the offer of a look up please.

Looking for birth/ christening

William Teal
Born abt 1781
Married 25 May 1809 Saint Thomas Dudley Worcester William TALL & Sarah Bloomer

Children:
Thomas TAIL christened 10 Mar 1810 Park Lane Presbyterian Cradley Worcester
John TAIL christened 28 Jan 1812 Cradley Worcester
Mary Ann TAIL christened 13 Feb 1814 Cradley Worcester
William TAIL christened 18 Feb 1816 Park Lane Presbyterian Cradley Worcester

Have found a Pos: William Teal (labourer) in 1841 census Worcester, BlockHouse living with a Sarah HILL? both aged 60

Death 1844 (awaiting death certificate to try and confirm him)

[MarkCDodd]

I would be a bit wary of allocatin all of those children to William and Sarah,

Half of those Baptisms are in Presbyterian Chapels and the other in Church Of England.

Possible 1841

1841 census transcription details for: Furnace Road, Stoke Upon Trent, Longton
National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107 Piece: 991 Book/Folio: 8/29 Page: 10

Reg. District: Stoke upon Trent Sub District: Lane End
Parish: Stoke upon Trent Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Stoke upon Trent
Address: Furnace Road, Stoke Upon Trent, Longton
County: Staffordshire
Name Relation Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born
TILL, George M 30 1811
TILL, Jane F 30 1811 Staffordshire
TILL, William M 60 1781 Staffordshire
TILL, Sarah F 60 1781 Staffordshire

[MarkCDodd]

He is not in the non conformist registers or normal Cradley registers.

I would wait for the death cert and see if if gives his fathers name.

[linell]

He is not in the non conformist registers or normal Cradley registers.

I would wait for the death cert and see if if gives his fathers name.

I think you are giving Paul poor advice there Mark, the Baptisms for John 1812 and Mary Ann 1814, are in the Cradley Parish Register I have a copy, and the other two Baptims are in the Park Lane Register. They are the only family with the name of Tail/Teal or Tall in the whole of the Index, so it is more than likely they are the same family, especially with the customery 2 years apart of each child, and different Christian names. Linell.

[Maths girl]

He is not in the non conformist registers or normal Cradley registers.

I would wait for the death cert and see if if gives his fathers name.

I think you are giving Paul poor advice there Mark, the Baptisms for John 1812 and Mary Ann 1814, are in the Cradley Parish Register I have a copy, and the other two Baptims are in the Park Lane Register. They are the only family with the name of Tail/Teal or Tall in the whole of the Index, so it is more than likely they are the same family, especially with the customery 2 years apart of each child, and different Christian names. Linell.

The idea of baptising in different churches is one of the ways that couples got round the problems of "mixed marriages"- they could have agreed to go alternate baptisms for boys starting at Pres and same for girls starting at Cof E - possibly going with the grandparent they were named after?

Another reason could be a falling out with the current minister and refusing/being refused baptism in that church.

"William Teal
Born abt 1781
Married 25 May 1809 Saint Thomas Dudley Worcester William TALL & Sarah Bloomer"

this marriage was at Cof E or could marriages not happen at Pres churches?

[Paul-E]

More confused now than before

These Teal's, Tall's and Tails are certainly hard work a bit like a few of them around today

Relying on death cert for fathers name might be a step in the right direction if the name is on cert.

As for the children, I think I will start by going through census and see who lives with who and maybe tie some together that way. Then onto marraige certs, death certs etc. I am having problems finding one of the sons in any census so he might be a possible death cert with parent/ address.

I feel like I have exhausted all avenues on William but sometimes the odd clue turns up going through the kids.......if these are their kids


Thanks

Paul

[Northern Lass]

Lin is correct about the churches
I do lots of look ups and they may well use both the c of e and the non conformist ones
esp St Peters Cradley and then using Park lane presbyterian

if you want any look ups Paul I can look those up
normally you get a bit more info in the Park lane ones if you are lucky
not very much before 1813 (think it is 1813 )

add any look ups in look up requests and under the dudly smethick post your look up here

[linell]

I think that is a good idea by NL Paul, request a look up for the Park Lane ones, I looked up the Cradley ones, it did say that Father Wm was a Labourer, which isn't much help, but at least we know he was a Workman rather than a Tradesman.
I am sure that they are your family, I would put them in my tree and they are a good basis to start with, as you say you need to find them all in the Census and see what they put for a place of birth, should be Cradley Worcs or Rowley Staffs.
We are always here to help. Linell.

[MarkCDodd]

I would be a bit wary of allocating all of those children to William and Sarah,

And this is bad advice why?

Did I say it never happens?

It is a rare enough occurance that you should be cautious allocating them all to the same family.

The old "two sources of proof" rule applies.

I believe these baptisms were found on I.G.I.

I went to the trouble of checking the actual registers to confirm the dual parishes.

Give me credit for trying to help and actually giving the right advice here.

He is not in the non conformist registers or normal Cradley registers.

I would wait for the death cert and see if if gives his fathers name.

And what is wrong with this?

I did the lookups in both and couldn't find anything suitable.

I have dozens that could be him in surrounding parishes but without his fathers name we have nothing to go on.

If you are going to criticise the advice I give, at least do it for something I did wrong.....

In the end, you all said the same thing as me anyway.

[Paul-E]

Info found on census:

Thomas Teal Born Staffordshire Cradley
John Teal Born Cradley Worcester
Mary Ann Teal.....still checking into married name
william Teal Born Cradley Worcestershire


Pretty sure these are William & Sarahs kids.

I have just found on ancestry in someones family tree these children with parents as William Tall & Sarah Bloomer.

Will contact tree owner and see how far they have checked.

Paul

[peterd]

THOMAS TAIL
Christening: 10 MAR 1810 Park Lane Presbyterian, Cradley, Worcester,

WILLIAM TAIL
Christening: 18 FEB 1816 Park Lane Presbyterian, Cradley, Worcester,


JOHN TAIL
Christening: 28 JAN 1812 Cradley, Worcester,

MARY ANN TAIL
Christening: 13 FEB 1814 Cradley, Worcester,



right wasnt going to buy into this but paul seem to be getting confused with all the diffrent advice being sent his way (so lets put our skill together to sort it out)

i can see both mark and linell points of view and both could be correct. so what marriage do we have for the above, anyone find any as the witnesses might settle this discusion if we can look them up


so all married by 1837 presumed any married twice ? (after 1837 )

was there a change of minister / vicar at Park Lane Presbyterian, Cradley after 1810 and before 1816 incase william and sarah had a falling out with him and change church for this reason or as maths girl said it could be to keep each side of the family happy so we cannot find william birth but any one find sarah bloomer christening to see what denomination she was christend under ( knowing how this going poss catholic )


right if two different family then are there any other kids between that 1810 and 1816 christening

how many marriage can be found for william teal/ tail/ and a Sarah between 1807 - 1811 ?

what are the census saying where kids were born ?

right lets get the two christening on for look up to see if there father is a labourer the same as the other two


paul even if you can only link your ancestor to william and sarah if you didnt want to included any of the other 3 you could always put the christening in william and sarah notes with a note of your own as a possibility and any info you thinks relevent from this topic