WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Completed discussions and topics. All topics are locked on archive. Please contact a forum moderator if you'd like a thread reactivated.

Moderators: grangers14, admin, Northern Lass

Locked
Maths girl
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:23 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Gladders Hackett Shakespeare Allport
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Staffordshire Durham
Location: Leicestershire

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by Maths girl »

mallosa wrote:
Maths girl wrote:
A twin could have been dead at birth so they didn't register it - Question? if they were born and died very quickly did they always report it if it cost money to register?

Twin birth certificates often have the time on them to differentiate the eldest (in case of inheritance problems etc later) but they may not have done this if the second baby was not registered


Yes that seems to have been the case with my Grandfather. It appears that William had a twin, according to his Birth Certificate which gives his time of birth as 11am.


I understand there were one or two super efficient registrars who didn't realise how confusing they would make it for us later searchers who decided to put time of birth on all their certificates so time isn't conclusive proof of multiple births but makes it worth looking!
Top
Sandra
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:23 am
Primary Surname Interests: Warren Doro Green Jupp Willsher Baldwin Richer Kindt
Primary Geographical Research Areas: England Germany

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by Sandra »

I am having doubts about the (Price Family Tree, Owner: damekellyholmes), it seems too good to be true regarding the twins. We have found that there was a Benjamin Edward WARREN born/baptised 9-9-1870, but he died 1870. Price's tree has a Benjamin Edward b 1971 still living in 1901 with his parents. The below shows that there were twins 1871 a daughter and a son if this son was Benjamin Edward he would be the one living with his parents in 1901 and if the other twin was a girl that rules out my 'Charles'. Also Joseph was married to Mary Edwards but Mary's father was Charles and mother Maria ASHFORD, where is the HOOPER?

Maths girl wrote:1871 Nunstead Rd, Sla(e)ight Cottages Potterne, Wiltshire
Joseph Warren 35 Head Cowman
Marry Warren 33
William Warren 13 Plow boy
George Warren 11 Scholar
John Warren 10 Scholar
Alice Warren 7 Scholar
Hannah Warren 5 Scholar
Emily Warren 4
Twin (Daug) Warren 7 days (The writer has gone over this several times to try to make it clear but I think this is what it says - based on my experience of trying to decipher school children's corrections!)
Twin (Son)Warren 7 days
Maria Edwards 50 Mother-in-law b Witham Friary

I can't find birth reg for these twins
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by dianel »

Unless you have another reference to prove that your Mary Edwards and Mary Hooper are the same person, the 'Hooper' could be a red herring. It looks like there could be 2 Mary Edwards born in Witham Friary abt 1833 both with mother Maria and father Charles (no wonder we get confused!!!):

Family 1.
1841
At Friary Street, Witham Friary
Charles Edwards 30 Ag. Lab.
Maria Edwards 25
Mary Edwards 8
George Edwards 7
Elizabeth Edwards 5
John Edwards 2
Charles Edwards 2 Mo

next door are:
William Warren 75 Ag. Lab.
Sylvia Warren 70
Sarah Warren 24
John Warren 25
Joseph Warren 8
George Warren 3
Henry Warren 1

All born in county

1851 Witham St, Witham Friary
Charles Edwards 44 Ag Lab
Maria Edwards 39 b. abt
George Edwards 17 Ag Lab
Elizabeth Edwards 15
John Edwards 13 Ag Lab
Thomas Edwards 8
William Edwards 5
Charles Edwards 3
Anne Edwards 2
Sarah Edwards 1 Mo
All born Witham Friary

Where is this family's Mary in 1851? She is present in 1861, but her sister Jane is too young to be the Jane in the workhouse in 1851:

1861 Street, Witham
Charles Edwards 53 Farm Labourer
Maria Edwards 48 b. abt 1813
Mary Edwards 28 Farm Labourer b. abt 1833
John Edwards 22 Farm Labourer
Thomas Edwards 18 Farm Labourer
William Edwards 16 Farm Labourer
Charles Edwards 14 Farm Labourer
Fanney Edwards 10 Farm Labourer
Jane Edwards 8 Farm Labourer

"Mary still with this family in 1861 unmarried which is after marriage of Mary Edwards to Joseph Warren 1857 - so this is not the right family to fit with the marriage we are looking at."
It could be this Mary who marries the 'Hooper'?
Although there are Warrens next to them in 1841, most likely the Edwards families are related and perhaps this is how Mary Edwards and Joseph Warren got together?

This looks like the family in damekellyholmes' tree
Family 2.
1841 Street Witham Friary (One page away from the Charles & Maria of Family 1.)
Charles Edwards 25 Ag Lab
Maria Edwards 25
Mary Edwards 5
Benjamin Edwards 2
William Edwards 1 Mo

1861 Street Ct Witham Friary
Emanuel Anford (Ashford?) 78 Shoemaker
Charles Edwards 49 Son in Law Labourer
Maria Edwards (nee Ashford?) 48 Daug b. abt 1813
Benjamin Edwards 20 Grson Labourer
Charles Edwards 13 Grson Labourer
All born Witham Friary

Where is this family's Mary in 1861. Possibly married to Joseph Warren?

Mary & Jane in the workhouse could also be a red herring ...
This looks more like the 2 girls in the Workhouse (ages correlate better):
1841
At Bates or Butts Hill, Frome
Ann Edwards 26 no occupation
Mary Edwards 5
William Edwards 3
Jane Edwards 1
All born in county

1851 Frome Union Workhouse
Mary Edwards 15 Pauper 15
Jane Edwards 10 Pauper 10
Both born Witham Friary
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by dianel »

Here is Family 2. in 1851:

1851
At Witham Friary
Charles Edwards Head 37 Agricultural Labourer b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Maria Edwards Wife 36 Employed at home b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Benjn Edwards Son 11 Agricultural Labourer b. Somerset, Witham Friary
William Edwards Son 9 Scholar b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Hannah Edwards Daur 7 Scholar b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Charles Edwards Son 1 b. Somerset, Witham Friary

No Mary?
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by dianel »

dianel wrote:Here is Family 2. in 1851:

1851
At Witham Friary
Charles Edwards Head 37 Agricultural Labourer b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Maria Edwards Wife 36 Employed at home b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Benjn Edwards Son 11 Agricultural Labourer b. Somerset, Witham Friary
William Edwards Son 9 Scholar b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Hannah Edwards Daur 7 Scholar b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Charles Edwards Son 1 b. Somerset, Witham Friary

No Mary?


Previous entry:
At Witham Friary St.
William Edwards Head Unm 43 Agricultural Labourer b. Somerset, Witham Friary (Charles brother?)

2nd entry after Charles and Maria (another brother?):
John Edwards Head 38 Agricultural Labourer b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Maria Edwards Wife 29 Employed at home b. Somerset, Nunney
David Edwards Son 11 Agricultural Labourer b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Maria Edwards Daur 10 Scholar b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Francis Edwards Son 7 Scholar b. Somerset, Witham Friary
Walter Edwards Son 5 Scholar b. Somerset, Witham Friary

SO many Maria Edwards!
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
Sandra
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:23 am
Primary Surname Interests: Warren Doro Green Jupp Willsher Baldwin Richer Kindt
Primary Geographical Research Areas: England Germany

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by Sandra »

So, in your opinion which family could Mary belong to? Thank you very much for all your time and effort.
Sandra
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by dianel »

I think it likely that it is the Mary Edwards of Family 2. who marries Joseph Warren. As you say the Mary of Family 1. is still with her parents and said to be unmarried in 1861 and so cannot be the Mary who married Joseph Warren in 1857.

Family 2. does fit with damekellyholmes' tree and looks to have the more likely Mary in it. But where is she in 1851?
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
Sandra
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:23 am
Primary Surname Interests: Warren Doro Green Jupp Willsher Baldwin Richer Kindt
Primary Geographical Research Areas: England Germany

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by Sandra »

dianel wrote:I think it likely that it is the Mary Edwards of Family 2. who marries Joseph Warren. As you say the Mary of Family 1. is still with her parents and said to be unmarried in 1861 and so cannot be the Mary who married Joseph Warren in 1857.

Family 2. does fit with damekellyholmes' tree and looks to have the more likely Mary in it. But where is she in 1851?


Could this be her? Gloucestershire I think is near Wiltshire.

1851 Census
8 Records found


Piece: HO107/1907 Place: St Austell -Cornwall Enumeration District: 1k
Civil Parish: St. Austell Ecclesiastical Parish: Charlestown
Folio: 143 Page: 25 Schedule: 101
Address: Cuddra Cottage



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
SPRY Mary Head U F 45 Independent Cornwall - St. Anthony
EDWARDS Mary Lodger U F 20 Companion To Lady Gloucestershire - Cirencester
CARNE Ann Servnt M F 53 Cook Cornwall - Perranzabuloe
PARSONS Elizabeth Servnt U F 23 Ladies Maid Cornwall - St. Blazey
LORD Ann Servnt U F 22 House Maid Cornwall - St. Neot
STEPHENS John Servnt U M 28 Footman Cornwall - Alternun
COOMBS Jane Lodger M F 28 Charwoman Cornwall - St. Austell
COOMBS Joseph Lodger - M 4m Cornwall - St. Austell
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by dianel »

Joseph Warren's mum, Sarah, appears to have finally married:

1861 Wales Census
At Maugham St., Penarth, Glamorgan
William Lester Head Mar 59 Excavator b. Somerset, Witham Fair
Sarah Lester Wife Mar 47 b. Somerset, Witham Fair b. 1814
Henry Warren Stepson 17 Excavator b. Somerset, Witham Fair
Jane Warren Step daur 11 b. Somerset, Witham Fair
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
Sandra
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:23 am
Primary Surname Interests: Warren Doro Green Jupp Willsher Baldwin Richer Kindt
Primary Geographical Research Areas: England Germany

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by Sandra »

Wow, that seem to fit in. I really do appreciate all your help. :wink:
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by dianel »

You're very welcome, Sandra. I do love a good mystery.

But we still haven't actually found Charles, have we? :?
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
Sandra
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:23 am
Primary Surname Interests: Warren Doro Green Jupp Willsher Baldwin Richer Kindt
Primary Geographical Research Areas: England Germany

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by Sandra »

Hi, this is to wish you all a very Merry Christmas and to thank all of you for your help with my problems.

You have found my 'Joseph and Mary' and their respective parents and all we have to do now is to connect them to 'Charles'. There has to be a link somewhere!

I could not have done this without your help, once again have a lovely Christmas where ever you are.
Cheers
Sandra
Top
User avatar
dianel
Posts: 3132
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:51 pm
Primary Surname Interests: PERRY, HARROLD, COOKSEY, HINGLEY, WOODHOUSE, MATEER, RIDDELL, RYAN, LEVETT
Primary Geographical Research Areas: BLACK COUNTRY, BELFAST, CO. LIMERICK, LANARKSHIRE
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by dianel »

And the same to you, Sandra. :grin:
Some mistakes are too much fun
to only make once.
Top
Sandra
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:23 am
Primary Surname Interests: Warren Doro Green Jupp Willsher Baldwin Richer Kindt
Primary Geographical Research Areas: England Germany

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by Sandra »

Does everyone have this much trouble finding missing relatives? On Ancestry if you do a search for Charles Warren with parents Joseph and Mary you get 7 results - the 1st Charles William was born Middlesex, but they do not say the year and I do not have access to Ancestry World so cannot find out.
The next Chares Knivett born 1819 - too young
#3 & #4 Charles Yeovil - sounds great - but I ruled him out and cannot remember why now
#5 & #6 Charles E born Woolwich 1891 - he appears in the 1901 census - was in Aust then
#7 born Aston 1948 - would be 30yrs younger than his records.
Top
Maths girl
Posts: 3561
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:23 pm
Primary Surname Interests: Gladders Hackett Shakespeare Allport
Primary Geographical Research Areas: Staffordshire Durham
Location: Leicestershire

Re: WARREN Joseph, EDWARDS Mary

Post by Maths girl »

Sandra wrote:Does everyone have this much trouble finding missing relatives?


Simple answer is "Yes -sometimes!"

Some just go with a swing and others hit all sorts of brickwalls! Often the answer is to try going back and looking at something different and then if you are lucky something slots into place.

Brothers and sisters of the people you actually know about are often useful ways of getting round a problem

sometimes we are just left with a best guess.

It is like a jigsaw where some of the pieces are missing - you can try slotting in a spare piece of paper and colouring it in how you think it would have looked but you can never be sure! Sometimes when you are clearing out a cupboard you might just find the lost piece and then you can whoop with joy and sometimes you just have to keep looking at the patch and saying "Maybe"
Top
Locked

Return to “Archived General Discussion”