*Arc tbc* -----Hannah Smith , born 16 Apr 1797

[sjs]

What a great idea! I am new to this forum, but love the idea of creating one big Black Country Family tree! So many times I have duplicated the same research someone else has already done on the same line. It makes so much more sense to work together with others who may be researching the same family.

On that note, let me ask Di if she has anymore information on the Hannah Smith she posted on the Black Country tree, born 16 Apr 1797, the daughter of Samuel and Sarah (Cooksey) Smith?

My gggg grandfather, Benjamin Mansell, was married to a Hannah Smith on the 25 Sep 1820 at St. Thomas, Dudley. The I.G.I. lists several possible candidates for Hannah Smith, but I'm at a loss as to which one is mine:

Hannah Smith christened 25 Dec 1798 at St Thomas, Dudley, daughter of William and Sarah Smith

Hannah Smith christened 21 Oct 1798 at Old Swinford, daughter of Thomas and Betty Smith

Hannah Smith christened 6 Jan 1798 at Ribbesford, daughter of Samuel and Susannah Smith

or could it be Di's Hannah Smith, born 16 Apr 1797, daughter of Samuel and Sarah (Cooksey) Smith????

How will I ever find the right Hannah Smith??? The only clue I have is the marriage record which states, “Benj, a Batchelor and Hannah, a Spinster, were married by Banns, and the Witnesses were Richard Fiddian (Church Warden) and a James Smith.”

Anyone have any suggestions? I've been doing genealogy research for 35 years, but this is the first time I have had to deal with such a common name as Smith. Help, please....

Sherry (from Pennsylvania - where the Mansells ended up in 1880)

[Northern Lass]

Hi Sjs .....you got on ok......welcome to the forum

Glad you like the Connections site..... hope you can join in with some of yours.

I have moved your topic to the main forum with its own thread

anything we can help with we will do our best

cheers Jan
xx

[peterd]

hi sjs do you no a Terry Rhodes he seem to be researching the same tree?

[sjs]

Yes, I have corresponded with Terry. Terry (a she) answered one of my Mansell queries earlier this year. Turns out she only lives a couple hours from me. Linda, Gill and somebody named Nigel are also researching the Mansells. That's why this Black Country Tree makes so much sense - we can all work together, so we don't waste our time duplicating research someone else has already done. I'll drop Terry a line and let her know about the Black Country tree as well.

Thanks!
sjs

[sjs]

Hi Jan,
It took a few tries, but I finally managed to get on okay. Thanks for your help!
sjs

[Northern Lass]

[peterd]

or could it be Di's Hannah Smith, born 16 Apr 1797, daughter of Samuel and Sarah (Cooksey) Smith????

How will I ever find the right Hannah Smith??? The only clue I have is the marriage record which states, “Benj, a Batchelor and Hannah, a Spinster, were married by Banns, and the Witnesses were Richard Fiddian (Church Warden) and a James Smith.”

Anyone have any suggestions? I've been doing genealogy research for 35 years, but this is the first time I have had to deal with such a common name as Smith. Help, please....

Sherry (from Pennsylvania - where the Mansells ended up in 1880)

di hannah might be a possibility as she has a brother named james

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =824829947

[peterd]

Hannah Smith christened 25 Dec 1798 at St Thomas, Dudley, daughter of William and Sarah Smith

poss brother

JAMES SMITH
Christening: 04 JAN 1807 Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester, England
Father: WILLM. SMITH Mother: SARAH


Hannah Smith christened 21 Oct 1798 at Old Swinford, daughter of Thomas and Betty Smith

poss brother but a bit old and birth only to 1800

JAMES SMITH
Christening: 15 OCT 1769 Old Swinford, Worcester, England
Father: THOMAS SMITH Mother: ELIZABETH



Hannah Smith christened 6 Jan 1798 at Ribbesford, daughter of Samuel and Susannah Smith

births up to 1820 no james

or could it be Di's Hannah Smith, born 16 Apr 1797, daughter of Samuel and Sarah (Cooksey) Smith????

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =824829947


How will I ever find the right Hannah Smith??? The only clue I have is the marriage record which states, “Benj, a Batchelor and Hannah, a Spinster, were married by Banns, and the Witnesses were Richard Fiddian (Church Warden) and a James Smith.”



Sherry (from Pennsylvania - where the Mansells ended up in 1880)

which one's does these rule out ? both submitted

Hannah Smith

Birth: About 1798 Of, Halesowen, Worcester, England

Spouse: Richard Perkes Marriage: 14 AUG 1819

Hannah Smith
Birth: About 1798 Of, Halesowen, Worcester, England

Spouse: William Bird Marriage: 22 NOV 1819 Halesowen, Worcester, England

[dianel]

Sorry sjs, I don't know anything more about Hannah, daughter of Sarah Cooksey and Samuel Smith than I have put on Connections.

I had a look at the census to see if I could find any more clues. This is all I found:


1841 - Canal Street, Tipton, Staffordshire
All born in County
Benjn Mansell 40 Forge Man
Hannah Mansell 35
Hannah M Mansell 15
Sarah Mansell 13
Benjn Mansell 11
Mary Ann Mansell 6
William Mansell 4
John Mansell 2

Can't see Benjamin and Hannah after this, but found:

1851 - Mount Pleasant, Goldenhill, Wolstanton
Benj Mansell Head 23 Puddler b. Staffs., Tipton
Mary Mansell Wife 32 b. Staffs., Tipton
Martha Mansell Daur 3 b. Staffs., Tipton
Hannah Mansell Daur 1 b. Staffs., Tipton
Eliza Mansell Daur 6 Mo b. Staffs., Kidsgrove

This looks like Benjamin son of Benjamin.

And this looks like the daughter Hannah M looking after her younger sister and brothers. What happened? Hannah is looking after her youngest brother, Edward, aged only 4? Or is she actually Edward's mother?

1851 - House Building, Tibbington Terrace, Tipton
Hannah M Mansell Head U 28 b. Sedgley, Staffordshire
Mary A Mansell Sister 16
William Mansell Brother 14
John Mansell Brother 12
Edward Mansell Brother 4

There was also this:
1871 England Census
Hannah Mansell 72 (b. abt 1799 ) Sedgley, Staffordshire
Inmate, Dudley Union Workhouse

When did the Mansells leave England, do you know? And who went to the US?

Cheers,
Di

[dianel]

PS. My sympathies with the Smiths!

[dianel]

Whoops, sorry, sjs! I see you have answered my questions on another thread. In this case, I think it possible that Benjamin senior had died by 1871 (maybe even by 1851) and Hannah was in the Workhouse. This could be Hannah's death:

FreeBMD Death Index:
Hannah Mansell b. abt 1797
Registration: 1873 Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 76
Dudley (To 1912) Staffordshire, Worcestershire
Inmate, Dudley Union Workhouse

[peterd]

Hannah Smith christened 25 Dec 1798 at St Thomas, Dudley, daughter of William and Sarah Smith

poss brother

JAMES SMITH
Christening: 04 JAN 1807 Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester, England
Father: WILLM. SMITH Mother: SARAH



this might be her as in the census 2nd boy and girl named sarah and william

1841 - Canal Street, Tipton, Staffordshire
All born in County
Benjn Mansell 40 Forge Man
Hannah Mansell 35
Hannah M Mansell 15
Sarah Mansell 13
Benjn Mansell 11
Mary Ann Mansell 6
William Mansell 4
John Mansell 2

[sjs]

Hi Di,

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I should have mentioned I posted the Mansell information separately - see post for Mansell and Nightengale families. That is my ggg grandfather, Benjamin Mansell, Jr. (b 2 Jan 1828 in Dudley) who is listed in the 1851 census at Kidsgrove, North Staffordshire. He married Mary Ann Nightengale on 18 Jul 1847 at Dudley.

Benjamin MANSELL, 23, Puddler, born - Tipton, Staffs
Mary A MANSELL, 22, born - Tipton, Staffs
Martha MANSELL, 3, born - Tipton, Staffs
Hannah MANSELL, 1, born - Tipton, Staffs
Eliza MANSELL, 6 months, born - Kidsgrove

The next record for Benjamin Jr. and Mary Ann is ship passenger lists, found on castelgarden.org which shows Benjamin Jr. and his family left England around 1858-59 and arrived in Canada on March 25, 1859 on a ship named, Underwriter.

Yes, the 1851 census - family headed by daughter, Hannah, is his siblings and I also felt the parents were probably deceased by 1851. Thank you for the FreeBMD Death Index re: Hannah Mansell b. abt 1797, Registration: 1873 Oct-Nov-Dec, Age at Death: 76, Dudley (To 1912) Staffordshire, Worcestershire, Inmate, Dudley Union Workhouse. It does look like it could be Benjamin Sr.'s wife, Hannah.

I guess I don't understand the workhouse theory. After Benjamin Sr. died, did she send the money she earned back to Hannah and the other children? I always thought the widow AND her children would all end up in the workhouse????

sjs

[sjs]

Hi peterd,

Thanks for the christening for James Smith. It does look like a good possibility. Hannah Smith christened 25 Dec 1798 at St Thomas, Dudley, daughter of William and Sarah Smith is the one I've been leaning towards, but just wasn't sure how to "prove" it was the correct entry.

Your suggestion of <JAMES SMITH, Christening: 04 JAN 1807 Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester, England, Father: WILLM. SMITH Mother: SARAH> looks very good, especially when you pointed out the naming pattern "2nd boy and girl named sarah and william in the family - in the 1841 census":

1841 - Canal Street, Tipton, Staffordshire
All born in County
Benjn Mansell 40 Forge Man
Hannah Mansell 35
Hannah M Mansell 15
Sarah Mansell 13
Benjn Mansell 11
Mary Ann Mansell 6
William Mansell 4
John Mansell 2

Where did you find the christening for James Smith? Was it on the I.G.I. I'll have to look for the rest of the family. At least it gives me a pretty good starting point for Smiths! Thanks so much for your help!

sjs

[peterd]

sent you a pm with results