*UPDATE -links to the threads below- *possible link up ?

[Jimmy]

Could this be Abbess Daniels 1. grand daughter.

Births Jun 1880.
DANIELS Alice. Dudley. 6c. 74.


I wondered if that Alice Daniels is the daughter of Wm and Matilda,
I agree I think she is the daughter of William Daniels Junior

[Northern Lass]

Could this be Abbess Daniels 1. grand daughter.

Births Jun 1880.
DANIELS Alice. Dudley. 6c. 74.


I wondered if that Alice Daniels is the daughter of Wm and Matilda,
I agree I think she is the daughter of William Daniels Junior

excellent!
we are getting somewhere

so I will add tilda too
can we find a birth for her
age 2 in 1891

[Northern Lass]

We need Wm Daniels snr on the 1871 too pls anyone
need to see which kids are his
is Sarah?
is Ellen?

[Northern Lass]

Jimmy is that Rollason one out of the picture now?


Found this.... might be her

Births Jun 1888
SMITH Matilda Dudley 6c 46

and Mumbles noted the name Smith here

1861 Census Rowley Village Rowley Regis Dudley Staffs.
William Rose Head 46 Nailer
Ann Rose wife 45 Nailer
William Rose son 20 Nailer
Mary Ann Rose dau 17
Joseph Rose son 14 Nailer
Ellen Rose dau
Gethan Rose dau 9
Absolom Rose son 5
William Daniels lodger 23 Soda Grater
Matilda Daniels wife 25 Nailer
Joseph Smith son in law 5
William Daniels son 10mths.All born Rowley Regis Staffs.

[Northern Lass]

Jimmy where are you!
post what you have sent me
that is it!
not sure what exactly but that is it
the Smith connection

[Northern Lass]

rite Jimmy sent this
we had it in the notes for Matilda
1856
DANIELS William SMITH Matilda Dudley, St Thomas Dudley Register Office 204/015/305

now that is why Joseph Smith is there b abt 1856

so did she actually marry a Westwood?

1854
ROSE Matilda WESTWOOD Joseph Dudley, St Thomas Dudley Register Office 204/014/129

So she marries Joseph 1854
he dies 1855
she has a Joseph Smith in 1856
and may marry a smith betw 1855 and 1856
cant see marriage
then
she marries again 1856 as a Smith

[Jimmy]

WILLIAM DANIEL,
MATILDA SMITH OR ROSE.
Marriage, 04 MAY 1856. Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester.

[Jimmy]

It looks like Matilda who married William Daniels is William Rose's daughter.

1851. Lillypot Row, RR.
William Rose 36. Nail Forger.
Nancy Rose 35.
Tilda Rose 14.
William Rose 10.
Mary Ann Rose 7.
Joseph Rose 4.
Ellen Rose 2.

[Northern Lass]

rite so what have we got what do we need?

We have a Joseph Smith b 1856
he has to be son of Matilda Rose

now did she actually marry a Westwood?
or did she marry a Smith
or did she marry both?

That Matilda smith b 1888 I think is tilda age 2
Alice is dau of Wm Daniels jnr and "Polly" or Wm Daniels jnr and a another

could Joseph have married a "Polly" and then she goes off with step bro?

what do we all think on this
I can send for certifs and do look ups
what do we need?

[Jimmy]

I can't see any of these 4 in 1871.

1881 Census 45, Birmingham Road Rowley Regis Dudley Staffs.
Ann Perry Head 66 (w) Nail Maker
Absalom Rose son 25 Rivet Maker
Elizabeth Rose dau.in.law 22 Nail Maker born Old Hill Staffs.
Mary A. Rose grd.dau 8mths. born Blackheath Staffs.
William Daniels son.in law 50 (w) Gen. Lab.
William Daniels grd.son 22 Gen. Lab.
Sarah Daniels grd.dau Nail Maker 18 born Old Hill Staffs.
Ellen Daniels grd.dau 13 Scholar
Abbess Daniels Grd.dau 1

[grangers14]

I've been looking for them too. Only found this so far as a ossible
1871 Census
Rowley Road, (Blackheath)
Joseph Rose, head, 23, nail maker
Ann, Mother, w, 53, Nail Maker
Agatha, sister, 18, Nail Maker
Absolom, brother, 15, Nail Maker
All born Rowley

[grangers14]

I think this is them in 1861. Not sure if you have this cos I'm a bit lost!
1861 Census
Rowley Village, Rowley Regis
William Rose, head, 46, Nailor
Ann, wife, 45, Nailor
William, son, 20, Nailor
Mary Ann, daur, 17, Nailor
Joseph, son, 14, Nailor
Ellen, daur, 11,
Gethaw, daur, 9,
Abasalam, son, 5,
William Daniels, lodger, 23, Soda Gratter
Matilda, wife, 25,
Joseph Smith, son in Law, 5,
William son, 10 months
All born Rowley Regis

[grangers14]

I know you cant go by other trees but there is one on ancestry saying,
Matilda Rose married Joseph Westwood, 13 Oct 1854 St Thomas Parish Church, Dudley then marrys
William Daniels, GRO Index Second Quarter Dudley, Volume 6c, Page 67 & IGI Batch Number M040142 St Thomas Parish Church.
Shows children, William, Sarah, John and Ellen. Says she dies 1869 aged 33, Dudley, West Midlands Death recorded in Vol. 6c, Page

[Jimmy]

We have the 1861, and we have,

Matilda Rose married Joseph Westwood, 13 Oct 1854 St Thomas Parish Church,

WILLIAM DANIEL.
MATILDA SMITH OR ROSE Family
Marriage, 04 MAY 1856. Saint Thomas, Dudley, Worcester.

But we cannot find a marriage for one between these marriages where she gets the Smith Surname.

1861 shows she has a son. age 5, Joseph Smith.

[Northern Lass]

Your lost!...we are going in circles...but we are getting there

We have these marriages
1854 Matilda Rose m Joseph Westwood ....I am looking that up
Joseph dies in 1855
1856 Matilda has Joseph Smith ( I think she does anyway)
1856 Matilda Smith marries William Daniels

No marriage for a Matilda Westwood to a Smith
unless anyone can find one.

I have sent an email to the nice registrars at Sandwell re Joseph Smith
so will see what happens on that one

We then Have in 1891
William Daniels jnr lodging with Joseph Mole and wife Getha ( Rose)
William Daniels is with a wife "Polly" and kids
Alice 12
Tilda 2

we have found a birth regis for Alice 1880 I am gonna send for that I think
and then for Tilda ....struggling
however I found one in 1880
Matilda Smith

I think this Smith is the key

I wondered if Joseph Smith married a Mary ann and she somehow is Polly shacking up with step bro Wm Daniels

Jimmy is that the giste of it at the mo?

we are just throwing it all in the pot see wot sticks

Q where is Tilda
who is she the dau of?

Q who is Polly?

Q why is Wm Daniels the brother in law of Joseph Mole...he is the nephew but not the brother in law
ie Joseph Mole married Getha Rose/ Getha and Matilda Rose are sisters/ William Daniels snr b abt 1830s married Matilda and they had William Daniels Jnr who "married" Polly
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