*ARC TBC* -- Samuel James Holder

[Rovaly]

Hi All
My wife's grandfather was Samuel James Holder born 1871 d 1916 of TB.
Not to be confused with his son of the same 1904/1983.(my wife's father)
We know he had one leg, that he had wartime memorabilia in his possession and we believe he was possibly involved in the Boer War but cannot prove it.
It is possible that it was an industrial injury, that he was unable to join up and the memorabilia was from somewhere else.
Boer War records are sparse and difficult to follow.
Does anyone have any bright ideas on how I can move forwards.

TIA
Roy

[peterd]

what exactly is the memorabilia ?

[MarkCDodd]

Try Forces Reunited. They have some excellent researchers in the Genealogy section.

First place to start is if he has any medals or paperwork, look for his Regimental number.

Photograph/photocopy/scan what you can and send them to the military history fanatics, such as those you find on Forces Reunited.

Where he lived is a good clue to the possible Regiment/Unit he was in.

Boer war lists are very comprehensive. It is fairly easy to find your relative once you have a clue as to his regimantal number and regiment.

[Rovaly]

Hi Peter
the memorabilia was a sword which was buried in the old marl hole that was being filled by refuse and medals which are goodness knows where now.
they may not have been his medals and the sword could have come from anywhere so we have no concrete proof. Only heresay.
Cheers
Roy

[Rovaly]

Please don't move it,
My wife's Holder family have been in the Black Country area since Mid 1800's and this particular Holder was born and died in Oldbury.
Roy

[Northern Lass]

Please don't move it,
My wife's Holder family have been in the Black Country area since Mid 1800's and this particular Holder was born and died in Oldbury.
Roy

Okedoke
Moved back to Black Country Genealogy as wasn't sure where he was from.
This board is a fast board so this will if not a "running " thead be moved to brickwalls that way it stays there for someone
to have a crack at for you.
The ones on the Black Country Genealogy are moved to the Black Country archived section this is explained here...
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=851&p=7543#p7543

So can anyone help Roy please
and Roy let me know if you want to move on the BCC got you as pending

[peterd]

this looks like him but this is submitted

Samuel James HOLDER
Birth: 1869 Oldbury, Worcester,
Death: 1916



Father: James Henry HOLDER
Mother: Caroline MANFIELD

Spouse: Elizabeth BRIDGE

Birth: 1874 Oldbury, Worcester,
Death: 3 Dec 1944 Oldbury, Worcester,



and

James Henry HOLDER
Caroline MANFIELD
Marriage: 2 Dec 1867 Aston Juxta, Birmingham,


Rovaly can you confirm his wife was elizabeth bridge ?

[peterd]

this confims she mansfield

1881 12 Green St Oldbury, Worcester

Richard MANSFIELD 63 Somerset, Lab In Chemical Wks
Hannah MANSFIELD 50 Oldbury
Samuel MANSFIELD U 30 Oldbury Glass Blower
Richard MANSFIELD Grandson 15 Oldbury Puddler
Louisa HOLDER Granddau 12 Birmingham S
Samuel HOLDER Grandson 11 Oldbury S
Mary MOOR Lodger M 25 Oldbury
Saml. MOOR Lodger 11 m Oldbury

[peterd]

poss richard submitted

Richard MANFIELD
Birth: abt 1818 Nailsea, Bristol, Somerset, England
Christening: Abt. ?) Holy Trinity, Nailsea, England


Parents
Father: William MANFIELD
Mother: Mary VENNER?

Spouse: Hannah BOSWELL
Marriage: 20 Apr 1840 Wandsworth, Stafford,


this submitted line goes back to about 1750

[peterd]

this confirms elizabeth brigde as wife

1901 34 popes lane

William Bridge 71 - market gardener
Samuel J Holder 30 son in law - diesinker - birmingham
Elizabeth Holder 27
Mary E Holder 6
Rose Holder 2 months

rest born olbury

[Rovaly]

Thanks to everyone for their efforts but I do actully have all that detail of his family and yes I can confirm that Elizabeth Bridge was his wife. I have her family too. She was related Sir John Frederick Bridge composer and Queen Victoria's director of music.
I will soon be putting all the tree onto the BCC
Where I am struggling is to tie down Samuel James' service history, we know he was in the army at some time though not in WW1 and that he lost a leg.
There were medals ( long gone) and a sword which was buried in the council tip. ( this is probably a red herring because I doubt if he was in the cavalry. It could however have been taken from the enemy??
I really need some help in finding his service record and have struggled when looking at Boer War data. One member has kindly given me a link to a source of information which I am grateful for. I shall be following that up shortly.
I have tried Ancestry and there is a Samuel J on there but he is not the right one
If anyone has any ideas on how to find better data I will be very grateful.

Thanks again for all your efforts and replies.
Cheers
Roy

[Rovaly]

Me again
Hi Peterd shows the census entries for the Holder family in 1901 and you will see Mary E aged 6 and Rose a few months old.
My wife has seen her Aunty Rose once in her childhood but I cannot find either of these ladies' marriages or deaths and she wasn't aware of Mary.
Can anyone help with this please?

TIA
Roy

[mallosa]

Could this be Mary's marriage?

Marriages Dec 1913

Beighton Elizabeth Hodgkiss W. Bromwich 6b 1571
Compton David Holder W. Bromwich 6b 1571
Hodgkiss William Beighton W.Bromwich 6b 1571
Holder Mary E Compton W.Bromwich 6b 1571

This is the only one that seems to fit for Rose

Marriages Sep 1922

ALLEN Joseph Holder King's N. 6d 300
HOLDER Rose Allen King's N. 6d 300
Swann Stephen H Yates King's N. 6d 300
YATES Eliza Swann King's N. 6d 300

[Rovaly]

Thanks Mallosa
The Mary E entry is very interesting we hadn't thought of her being that young, but it is very promising.
The entry of Rose marrying Mr Allen I had seen before but we don't think it is the right one.

One extra detail that might help is that the family was centred on Wallace Road, Oldbury from the 1930's onwards. They had moved there from Popes Lane.
My wife's only recollection of "Aunty Rose" is when she was a child having her pointed out by her father at a get together. She lived in Wallace Road. We have looked at alist of occupants in Wallace Road at that time and there was no Allen which is why we think that is a dead end.

Thanks
Roy

[peterd]

poss 1911 census might give you more info ?