Edward Shakespeare "born abt 1580" (on BCC)

[sp1]

I am writing this in the hope of correcting a misconception of this Edward Shakespeares birthdate. Like many others I spent decades looking for an Edward Shakespeare born around 1580 - this came from estimating his birth from the first recorded baptism of one of his children (1603/4 in Rowley Regis): he obviously came from elsewere, and Warwickshire seemed the likeliest place. There are some other facts to consider:

1. There is a baptism of a daughter of a John Shakespeare in Rowley Regis in 1609
2. A James Shakespeare married in 1629 in Halesowen, and had daughters baptised there in 1630 and 1637
3. There is a marriage of a Thomas Shakespeare and Ann Gibbons recorded at Sedgley in 1581
4. The burial records of Edward and his wife Ann (both at Dudley) have the additional information in the register (very unusual) buried: 'Old Edward Shakespeare' (1634) and 'Old Ann Shakespeare' (1636) - this would be be very strange information to add for individuals who would both be in their early fifties!

The breakthrough came with finding a will (written 1574, proved 1575) of a John Shakespeare, Labourer (again an unusual occupation for someone leaving a will at this time, although most of the Shakespeares - and there weren't many - left wills due to their landowning status). This mentions a son Edward Shakespeare who subsequently disappears from his birthplace in Wroxall, Warwickshire. Six years after the will is the marriage for 'Thomas' Shakespeare in Sedgley - I believe this is Edwards marriage (we know from later parish register entries that his wife WAS named Ann, and this age making them some 20 years older fits more with the descriptions at their burial. I think that Thomas was miswritten for Edward in the 1581 marriage entry (from many years experience I have found this is not unusual - proving it is another matter!, but it must be remembered that parish register entries were often written some time after the event (maybe on a yearly basis) from earlier notes: it is also important to remember that registers from prior to 1603 are NOT original: they were copied from earlier paper registers onto parchment following a law introduced at this time - this gives us a second opportunity for miscopying/ mistranscription. Bearing this in mind I think that the John (at Rowley Regis_ and James (at Halesowen) are both sons of Edward and Ann, born BEFORE the existing entries in the Rowley Regis parish registers, possibly at Kingswinford (where the surviving registers begin in 1603) or elsewhere - all of these places mentioned bordered each other, and you can walk between them, even today, in a very short time - surviving records indicate that the immediately following generations of the family were settled on the Dudley/ Kingswinford border around the Woodside/ Pensnett border.

How does all of this fit with the Edward Shakespeare in the 1575 will? Well....this Edwards father was named John, also mentioned in the will was John's brother in law James (Wadham) - see any similarity with the names? At this point in time the number of male Shakespeares alive (ANYWHERE) was in the mid 20s (the name is VERY VERY rare!!) - there was not another Edward Shakespeare in existence for another 50 years or so, so if anyone doubts that this is our man I can give you all of the names and dates. Additionally, the John Shakespeare of the will makes an unusual provision, in that he 'hopes that his landlord will allow his wife and son to continue their tenancy' (or words to that effect) - perhaps the fact that he didn't accounts for Edward making his way to the Dudley area (it's only about 35 miles away).

If you believe all of this could someone please add the necessary correction to the bcc tree (Edwards birthdate would be circa 1560, and he married Ann Gibbons at Sedgley in 1581 - his parents were John Shakespeare and Isabell Wadham, both of Wroxall, Warwickshire: the 1580/81 birthdate which appears all over the internet is both irritating and wrong (sorry to use such strong language, but it annoys me!!)

Steve

[sp1]

Felt I should add some more, and take the tree back another generation or two.........

John Shakspeare (died 1575) and a Robert Shakespeare (died 1564) both mention a brother William in their wills (do you see another similarity in the names of Edward Shakespear's children?). These were the only three Shakespeares in Wroxall at this time (overlapped by an earlier Richard) - tied together nicley by the information in their wills (they were brothers).

The earlier/ overlapping Richard I mentioned is known to have been an adult (ie over 21) in 1525, and died in 1561. His wife was an Alice Wadham (I think she was the aunt of the James Wadham mentioned in the first post, meaning that John Shakespeare married his cousin, Isabell Wadham (the name sometimes occurs as Woodham) - Wroxall really was a small place: I have seen it described as 'about six farms and the Abbey'. Richard had a contemporary by the name of William Shakespeare in Wroxall, but he can be accounted for, as he had a daughter, but no sons. At this point in time there are only around a dozen male Shakespeares alive anywhere, nearly all of them in the adjacent villages of Wroxall and Rowington - although there is scant documentary evidence for this 500 years later, this points to the three brothers Robert, John and William being the sons of Richard.

Now the good bit (at least I find it interesting, but you may need a mind like Hercule Poirot to follow it. Manorial records show that this Rchard's father was named John. There was another John, contemporary with this one,living in Rowington (the village next to Wroxall), and HE names Richard as an executor of his will, with NO relationship given: he DOES give relationships to all of his other Shakespeare relatives in his will. There are a variety of complex reasons why Richard cannot be the son of this John (if you need to see them I will have to dig out what I have in my notes), and is in fact the son of a different John (deceased before 1525) and his wife Eleanor.

We are nearly there! We have John & Eleanor (Richard's parents) and the 'other' John, whose wife was named Joanna- we know that this John's parents were Richard & Margery. This Richard had a brother William, who had only daughters, so cannot be the ancestor of any later male Shakespeares (he is the 'other' Shakespeare in Wroxall overlapping Richard's time). Contemporary with this Richard & William was a Thomas. Now these three (Richard, William and Thomas) were (apart from the known parents of Richard & William, named John & Alice) were the only male Shakespeares at this time (YES, there really were only four male Shakespeares alive here at this point). This can only mean that Thomas MUST be a brother of Richard and William (their father John HAD NO BROTHERS). Now, William had only daughters, Richard had a son John (married to Joanna - proven from wills and manorial records) which means that the other John (maried to Eleanor, and the father of Richard, who in turn was the father of the three Wroxall brothers Robert, John & William) MUST be a son of Thomas. Phew......!

I have this all written out somewhere, with sources, but it is very long - I hope the above summary will suffice for now.

[sp1]

Whoops, messed that up slightly!!

The father of John (married Joanna) was Richard (married to Margery), with other sons Thomas (as outlined above) and William (the one with daughters but no sons) - it is this Richard who was the son of John (and Alice) - he had a brother Ralph, who also had only daughters - that'll teach me to try writing something like this at one o'clock in the morning!

Hope you followed it all - a tree with notes would be much easier to follow, but would be difficult to put on here (I may be able to put a link to download something?

While we are at this point I may aswell finish it off:

John and Alice - this John had no brothers, his parents were Adam Shakespeare and Alice. Adam's father is recorded as Adam 'of Oldeditche' (no surname) - Adam (married to Alice) had a brother William, who left no descendants, is the ancestor of all living Shakespeares.....all Shakespeares alive today really are descended from Adam!

[sp1]

One more post, then I am ready for questions!

(Sorry to have 'answered' my own post several times, but felt it would be easier to break it all up.)

You may be wondering why I included all of this in a post on the 'Black Country' section of the forum, but I think it very relevant to explaining the origins of Edward Shakespeare.

Furthermore, Edwards descendants are one of the reasons why the Black Country records are so well covered by the Mormon Church - among the 2000+ descendants of Edward that I have so far found, more than 500 of them are in Utah (and still adding). The reason for this is that the Mormon Church had branches established in Dudley and Stourbidge by around 1840 - among the Mormon converts who made the the trek to Utah following there conversion was a David Shakespeare, who settled in Panguitch, Utah in 1854. All (actually one tiny family are not) of the Shakespeares in Utah descend from him. There were many other Mormon converts from the Black Country who went to Utah at this time, so it is indirectly due to many of Edward Shakespeares descendants, and many more like them from this area, that we have such good coverage of the local records easily available to genealogists, especially very good coverage on the IGI.

(And NO, I am not a Mormon!!!)

Steve

[Northern Lass]

Excellent .....Thanks for that info I have altered it.



I also have a will which shows that the dau of Ferdinando Shakespear was Ann Shakespear married to John Round.
I think you have her married to William Jefferies
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... inando.htm
On the 1841 census Sarah Round John and Ann Rounds dau is living with Ferdinand and also Elizabeth Thurman ( nee Round who married William Thurman. Elizabeth or betsy is mentioned in the will of John Round as his dau.

John ROUND married Ann SHAKESPEAR at St. Mary's, Kingswinford, on the 22 Nov 1801.
The witnesses were: Frances GREENFIELD, and William ROUND.
There is no marriage of this couple in 1811 as is indicated on the IGI.

Marriage info
19 July 1841 St Thomas Dudley
-William Grainger- of full age- Widower- nailer- Woodside- Parish of dudley- Isaac Grainger- deceased- nailer
-Sarah Round- of full age- spinster- Woodside- John Round- miner-
banns
. X of both
Wit- Edward Hickman X Mary Shaw X

also interestingly William Graingers brother Daniel married Mary Shakespeare dau of Edward and Mary Shakespeare nee Boxley
Edward and Ann were bro and sister

Marriage info
1st March 1841 Oldswinford
-Daniel Grainger - full - bach- chainmaker- Lye waste- Isaac Grainger- nailer
-Mary Shakespear- full- spinster- nailer- Lye Waste- Edward Shakespear- nailer
banns
X of both
Wit - Richard Grainger and Elizabeth Grainger
(Richard is another bro to Daniel and Wm)


The best way to add this info of yours Steve is for you to add it to BCC so let me know on that

[sp1]

Yes, of course - please let me know how, and thank you for the details on Ann Shakespeare.

[Northern Lass]

Okedoke Steve can you pm me a direct email address for yourself please and I will contact you
as you had 2 I think so not sure which one to use

[Northern Lass]

This will now be archived