*ARC TBC* -- Help

[Butterfly]

Hi,

I have been researching my family history for the last couple of years, I live in Australia, so have been doing it remotely sending away for certificates and using all the available sites, free and paid for, but I have been stumped by my grandfather. I never knew him as he died in 1940. I have his marriage certificate to my grandmother, but I cannot locate his birth registration anywhere. I now believe that his father may have been married twice and that his mother died a couple of weeks after his birth. If this is the case, it may be why he was never registered, his birth would have been around 1894 in Lewisham, London, if he wasn't registered would there be any other type of record available such as a parish record, or would he just have slipped under the radar so to speak. If anyone has any suggestions then I will give all the info I have and what I think is correct, rather than go into great detail in my first post.

Many thanks
Ann

[Northern Lass]

Hi,

I have been researching my family history for the last couple of years, I live in Australia, so have been doing it remotely sending away for certificates and using all the available sites, free and paid for, but I have been stumped by my grandfather. I never knew him as he died in 1940. I have his marriage certificate to my grandmother, but I cannot locate his birth registration anywhere. I now believe that his father may have been married twice and that his mother died a couple of weeks after his birth. If this is the case, it may be why he was never registered, his birth would have been around 1894 in Lewisham, London, if he wasn't registered would there be any other type of record available such as a parish record, or would he just have slipped under the radar so to speak. If anyone has any suggestions then I will give all the info I have and what I think is correct, rather than go into great detail in my first post.

Many thanks
Ann

Hi Butterfly welcome

Could he have been registered under another name?
Or in another area?
There could well be a bapt there again if lots of churches in that area which one!
Maybe if you know which church the mother was buried at?
or where living at time of death.
If you have his date of birth ie do other members of the family know his actual day, month of birth or just the month
as that might help if you talk to the regis office.
Think we need bit more info maybe his parents names?

[peterd]

hi butterfly could you post his name year, parents name if you got both

wedding cert detials including witnessess

pete

[Butterfly]

Hi Pete & Northern Lass,

Many thanks for your replies. I can give you the details that I am sure off, plus what I surmise, unfortunately, I only have one close living relative to ask any info of, that is one Aunt in her 80's, and neither my mum nor she saw much of their father (my grandfather) as their mother died when they were 5 and 3 respectively, they were then brought up by their grandmother and saw little of their father. She doesn't even recall if he had any siblings or his parents names.

Anyway these are the facts that I am sure of:
His name is Frederick Gibbs (possibly with the middle name of William)
He married Margaret Roff 15th Nov 1920, his age is shown as 25, hers as 22.
His father is shown as William Gibbs, Occupation Carman
They were married at Parish Church of St John Devine, Kennington, London
Withnesses: Rose Osborne and Annie Norris
They were living at 27 Warrior Road, Camberwell

I believe that I found him on the 1901 census, showing his age as 7, living with William & Ruth Gibbs, sister's Alice and Kate, and brother William. The address is shown as 16 St Albans Terrace, China Walk, Lambeth, London.

I have William's and Ruth's marriage certificate which was dated 1901, and I think that this is his father and stepmother.

I don't have his death certificate, although I am about to send away for it and the details are:
Death Registration
September qtr 1940
Camberwell
Vol 1d
Page 966
Age shown as 47

I have the memorial card from his funeral, this shows his death as 11th July 1940 in his 48th year. Interred in Private Grave No. 43689 Sq27 at Streatham Park Cemetery.

Obviously, that's not going to shed any light on his birth, but I will get it for my records.

On checking previous censuses this is what I surmise as far as his parents are concerned, William was married to a Catherine Chesson (also shown as Kate) he was originally from Deptford, Greenwich and they had 4 children, the 4th I suspect to be my grandfather Frederick. I have Catherine's death certificate, and she died shortly after giving birth at St John's Hospital, Lewisham. If she was Frederick's mother then it makes his date of birth 19th Dec 1892, (her death was 2nd Jan 1893)and I am thinking that this may have been the reason he wasn't registered. They were residing at 37 Idonia Street Deptford at the time of her death.

If you can give me any suggestions to track down his birth it would be a great help, hope the above isn't too confusing.

Regards

[Maths girl]

Given that they were coping with a young baby when Catherine died could Frederick have been taken to live with Grandparents and therefore registered elsewhere?

Could it show up on the Apr May June quarter if it was done late due to the confusion?

How convinced are you that you have the right family on the census? getting Kate/Alice/William's birth certificate would possibly give more details.

[Maths girl]

Just a thought - given his age what did Frederick do during WW1 - your aunt may have stories that she heard as a child about WW1 which might trigger some memories that would offer clues

[Butterfly]

Hi Maths Girl

As I said my Aunt has no real memories of her father once her mother died in 1930, she rarely saw him and she was only 3 at the time, even during my mum's life she only remembered actually seeing him once after her mother died. Unfortunately, I have no way of knowing whether he may have served in WW1. My Mum and her sister were brought up by her maternal grandmother and extended family of aunts, so appeared never to have contact with the Gibbs side of their family. I made the assumption about my grandfather's siblings from the 1901 census which showed Frederick Gibbs born in Lambeth living with William & Ruth Gibbs, and showing Alice & William as his siblings. I know that Frederick's father was a William Gibbs whose occupation was a Carman.

[tobytwo]

Hi,

I have been researching my family history for the last couple of years, I live in Australia, so have been doing it remotely sending away for certificates and using all the available sites, free and paid for, but I have been stumped by my grandfather. I never knew him as he died in 1940. I have his marriage certificate to my grandmother, but I cannot locate his birth registration anywhere. I now believe that his father may have been married twice and that his mother died a couple of weeks after his birth. If this is the case, it may be why he was never registered, his birth would have been around 1894 in Lewisham, London, if he wasn't registered would there be any other type of record available such as a parish record, or would he just have slipped under the radar so to speak. If anyone has any suggestions then I will give all the info I have and what I think is correct, rather than go into great detail in my first post.

Many thanks
Ann

Hi Ann
I have found this birth

Frederick GIBBS
Born 1895
Apr-June Qtr
Lewisham
Vol 1D
Page No 1223

TT

[Butterfly]

Thanks Toby,

I did see this info on FreeBMD, but haven't sent away for the certificate as it now appears to be out of the time frame I have. I have already sent for some relating to Frederick Gibbs in the past that were registered in London areas, but to no avail. I will keep this one in mind, and will probably send away for it to see if there is any connection as I have a few other certificates that I want copies of.

Thanks again

[peterd]

Thanks Toby,

I did see this info on FreeBMD, but haven't sent away for the certificate as it now appears to be out of the time frame I have. I have already sent for some relating to Frederick Gibbs in the past that were registered in London areas, but to no avail. I will keep this one in mind, and will probably send away for it to see if there is any connection as I have a few other certificates that I want copies of.

Thanks again

if you send for cert tell them you only want it if his father name is william, they wont send it if it isnt and return your cheque

[Butterfly]

Thanks Peter,

Being in Australia I normally order my certificates from the GRO and pay via credit card, as it's too expensive to organise a pound sterling money order from the banks here. I don't recall there being the option of specifying on the form not to send it if certain information is not correct, but that may just be my memory, I haven't ordered any for a few months. I will check it out when I order the certificates.

[Northern Lass]

Thanks Peter,

Being in Australia I normally order my certificates from the GRO and pay via credit card, as it's too expensive to organise a pound sterling money order from the banks here. I don't recall there being the option of specifying on the form not to send it if certain information is not correct, but that may just be my memory, I haven't ordered any for a few months. I will check it out when I order the certificates.

There isn't at the GRO online service for births it is the Gro ref no year qtr district and no facility that I can see to add a stipulation
But...
the local registration offices I find are very good they will normally check a couple of years either side and some of them take payments
by credit card and you can say you only want it if the father is such and such but you would need to just check that the regis you want offers all that.

[tobytwo]

Hi,

I have been researching my family history for the last couple of years, I live in Australia, so have been doing it remotely sending away for certificates and using all the available sites, free and paid for, but I have been stumped by my grandfather. I never knew him as he died in 1940. I have his marriage certificate to my grandmother, but I cannot locate his birth registration anywhere. I now believe that his father may have been married twice and that his mother died a couple of weeks after his birth. If this is the case, it may be why he was never registered, his birth would have been around 1894 in Lewisham, London, if he wasn't registered would there be any other type of record available such as a parish record, or would he just have slipped under the radar so to speak. If anyone has any suggestions then I will give all the info I have and what I think is correct, rather than go into great detail in my first post.

Many thanks
Ann

Hi Ann

I think I may have found Frederick's war records if you send me a pm with your e-mail address I will send them to you and see what you think

Marg

[tobytwo]

Hi Pete & Northern Lass,

Many thanks for your replies. I can give you the details that I am sure off, plus what I surmise, unfortunately, I only have one close living relative to ask any info of, that is one Aunt in her 80's, and neither my mum nor she saw much of their father (my grandfather) as their mother died when they were 5 and 3 respectively, they were then brought up by their grandmother and saw little of their father. She doesn't even recall if he had any siblings or his parents names.

Anyway these are the facts that I am sure of:
His name is Frederick Gibbs (possibly with the middle name of William)
He married Margaret Roff 15th Nov 1920, his age is shown as 25, hers as 22.
His father is shown as William Gibbs, Occupation Carman
They were married at Parish Church of St John Devine, Kennington, London
Withnesses: Rose Osborne and Annie Norris
They were living at 27 Warrior Road, Camberwell

I believe that I found him on the 1901 census, showing his age as 7, living with William & Ruth Gibbs, sister's Alice and Kate, and brother William. The address is shown as 16 St Albans Terrace, China Walk, Lambeth, London.

I have William's and Ruth's marriage certificate which was dated 1901, and I think that this is his father and stepmother.

I don't have his death certificate, although I am about to send away for it and the details are:
Death Registration
September qtr 1940
Camberwell
Vol 1d
Page 966
Age shown as 47

I have the memorial card from his funeral, this shows his death as 11th July 1940 in his 48th year. Interred in Private Grave No. 43689 Sq27 at Streatham Park Cemetery.

Obviously, that's not going to shed any light on his birth, but I will get it for my records.

On checking previous censuses this is what I surmise as far as his parents are concerned, William was married to a Catherine Chesson (also shown as Kate) he was originally from Deptford, Greenwich and they had 4 children, the 4th I suspect to be my grandfather Frederick. I have Catherine's death certificate, and she died shortly after giving birth at St John's Hospital, Lewisham. If she was Frederick's mother then it makes his date of birth 19th Dec 1892, (her death was 2nd Jan 1893)and I am thinking that this may have been the reason he wasn't registered. They were residing at 37 Idonia Street Deptford at the time of her death.

If you can give me any suggestions to track down his birth it would be a great help, hope the above isn't too confusing.

Regards

Hi Ann

On William and Ruth's marriage certificate in 1901 what was Ruth's maiden name.

Marg

[Butterfly]

Hi Marg

I've tried to pm you, but am having trouble, it keeps telling me that the user doesn't exist. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, got my husband to check it, and I appeared to be doing everything OK, so don't know what the problem is. I have a Gmail account, which is ***** if you send me an email to this address I will reply with my home email address.

Ruth's maiden name was Warren.

Regards
Ann

note by NL email taken off as explained in next post