*Arcived TBC* Henry James Smith b 1894 (Hi From Wales)

[mgjsmith]

Hi my name is Martin Smith and I have a particular interest in unearthing some details about my grandfather Henry James Smith who was born in 1894 I believe in Swindon. I understand he was a Barnardos child but did live at some time in Poplar Avenue in Swindon. He moved to West Wales in his teens, and was a member of the Pembrokeshire Yeomanry at the outbreak of the Great War in 1914. Any suggestions on where/how I start would be much appreciated. Martin

[peterd]

hi martin and welcome to the forum

you got henry james wedding cert ?
did he have any bro or sis you know off ?

[Maths girl]

Hi Martin

Welcome to the forum

Have you talked to as many realatives as you can first?

Do you have marriage certificate for your Grandfather as that might give more details?

Maths Girl

[peterd]

long shot


Births Mar 1895

Smith Henry James Highworth 5a 16


highworth covered swindon before june 1899

[Maths girl]

long shot


Births Mar 1895

Smith Henry James Highworth 5a 16


highworth covered swindon before june 1899

1901
Isaac Brown 53 General Labourer (illegible)[/) Totbury
Henry J Brown 19 (illegible)[/) in City Works Warborough
Elizabeth Brown 12 Cricklade
Frank Brown 9 Cricklade
Martha Smith 36 S Boarder House Keeper (illegible) Black
Henry J Smith 7 Boarder Pinton (is Pinton near Highworth?)
Frances L Smith 5 Boarder Swindon
Matilda Smith 9 months Boarder Swindon

No obvious father - suggests possibility -link to need for Barnardos boy

Did I read somewhere that Barnados are beginning to release their records (for a fee) - anyone know anymore details on this?

[Northern Lass]

Hi Martin and welcome to the forum
as the members have dived in to help I will move this to General Discussion and retitle it too
if you wish to adjust the title please do

The Gen discussion is for counties other than the Black Country counties which
has its own section further down the board

[mgjsmith]

long shot


Births Mar 1895

Smith Henry James Highworth 5a 16


highworth covered swindon before june 1899

1901
Isaac Brown 53 General Labourer (illegible)[/) Totbury
Henry J Brown 19 (illegible)[/) in City Works Warborough
Elizabeth Brown 12 Cricklade
Frank Brown 9 Cricklade
Martha Smith 36 S Boarder House Keeper (illegible) Black
Henry J Smith 7 Boarder Pinton (is Pinton near Highworth?)
Frances L Smith 5 Boarder Swindon
Matilda Smith 9 months Boarder Swindon

No obvious father - suggests possibility -link to need for Barnardos boy

Did I read somewhere that Barnados are beginning to release their records (for a fee) - anyone know anymore details on this?

Mathsgirl and peterd ...
Excuse my ignorance but, where did this information come from and could you explain the content. Martin

[Maths girl]

Hi Martin

Sorry if we rushed you - I'll explain what I can and if you keep asking you will be quicker than me soon as you obviously can find you way round a forum which is my stumbling block!

I don't know where peterd gets his info but I subscribe to Ancestry and you can search their databases for info on the Censuses(should that be censi?) and births/marriages/deaths. There are other places too (some with limited info for free depending on the area you are looking at) but that will do for a start

We have Census every 10 years from 1841-1901 on Ancestry and there is some access to 1911 but I can't get that yet.

Births/ Deaths/ Marriages began to be collected from 1837 although this was a bit haphazard at first as they got used to the new system. Before 1837 we have to look at other things for info but more on that later.

peterd wrote:

long shot - ie it could be complete nonsense but we might strike lucky - he looked up Henry James Smith about the date you said and got...
Births Mar 1895
Smith Henry James Highworth 5a 16 - A birth with the right name and roughly the right date - the 5a 16 is a reference for the General Record Office if you want to send off for the certificate itself so you can see if it has more info on it - this costs £7 a go so best done only if you are really sure or really stuck or want it for your recordshighworth covered swindon before june 1899-this is peterd giving info that he knows about the area and suggesting that as it is near Swindon it could be the one you are looking for

My bit came as I say from Ancestry and some of it was not very clear - someone else may be able to have a better stab at the illegible bits


As peterd had got a possible date that confirmed your I tried the 1901 Census database and it gave me:

1901
Isaac Brown 53 General Labourer (illegible) Totbury
Henry J Brown 19 (illegible) in City Works Warborough
Elizabeth Brown 12 Cricklade
Frank Brown 9 Cricklade
Martha Smith 36 S Boarder House Keeper (illegible) Black
Henry J Smith 7 Boarder Pinton [color=#00BF80](is Pinton near Highworth?)
Frances L Smith 5 Boarder Swindon
Matilda Smith 9 months Boarder Swindon[/color]

This gave various bits of information about who was living in the same house as Henry J Smith at that time: in this case the Brown family and the Smith family who were apparently boarding: It also gives the ages and occupations (those are the bits I can't read very well at the moment) and where the individuals were born.

There are limitations on these results as it depends on the level of literacy of the enumerators (people who collected the info) and how clearly the people they were speaking to were understood. Sometimes they lied too - for all the same reasons as people do now eg ages!as well as probably forgetting and therefore estimating.

No obvious father - suggests possibility -link to need for Barnardos boy

Did I read somewhere that Barnados are beginning to release their records (for a fee) - anyone know anymore details on this?


These bits were me stating thoughts and asking questions

If this goes into more detail than you needed please forgive me I am getting back into teacher mode ready for the new term - it is my greatest fault !

Any more questions - ask away

[mgjsmith]

Hi Mathsgirl and thanks for the explanation.
I have a feeling I am going to get completely hooked on this matter in the coming months (better warn my wife that the home diy could suffer!!!).

Next steps
I am going to visit our local Records Office in Carmarthen soon to see what I can uncover. One of the ladies at the office today told me that the marriage certificate for my grandfather's marriage to my grandmother would show his father's name - is that a certainty, as my father did suggest at some time a number of years ago before he became ill, that there were some possible skeletons in the family cupboard!

Would a visit to the Wiltshire Records Office be productive. If so, I was considering taking a couple of days off work and spending the time doing some research in Swindon.

The data you folks have obtained does look promising. In 1901, my grandfather would have been 7 years old - if his birth year of 1894 is correct. This piece of information is certainly worth following up.

I cannot find any information on a place called Pinton. Could that be some Barnardos reference - a house name possibly?
I understand from the Barnardos website that they can for £15.00 confirm whether a Henry James Smith was indeed a Barnardos child. The provision of details gets somewhat costly!

My father told me many years ago that is father lived in a house in Poplar Avenue, Swindon when he was a child. Is there anyway a search can be done on properties alone to identify occupants, and can this be done solely on the census data? Are there other methods of looking at properties in Poplar Avenue?

Thanks for the assistance so far. Martin

[mgjsmith]

One more quick question!!!

Are you saying the people below were all living in the same house?
What was the address as there are different placenames shown?

Martin


1901
Isaac Brown 53 General Labourer (illegible) Totbury
Henry J Brown 19 (illegible) in City Works Warborough
Elizabeth Brown 12 Cricklade
Frank Brown 9 Cricklade
Martha Smith 36 S Boarder House Keeper (illegible) Black
Henry J Smith 7 Boarder Pinton (is Pinton near Highworth?)
Frances L Smith 5 Boarder Swindon
Matilda Smith 9 months Boarder Swindon

[Maths girl]

Hi Mathsgirl and thanks for the explanation.
I have a feeling I am going to get completely hooked on this matter in the coming months (better warn my wife that the home diy could suffer!!!).- No doubt about it - it is addictive

Next steps
I am going to visit our local Records Office in Carmarthen soon to see what I can uncover. One of the ladies at the office today told me that the marriage certificate for my grandfather's marriage to my grandmother would show his father's name - is that a certainty, Nothing is ever a certainty because it relies on human beings telling the truth! and relying on human memories not computersHowever there is certainly a space for the father's name on marraige certificates and it is possible to see old church records providing you go to the right one - do you know which church he was married at - has the lady at Carmarthen said they have that church there - even then sometimes infuriatingly the one you want is illegible for some reason but you should be luckyas my father did suggest at some time a number of years ago before he became ill, that there were some possible skeletons in the family cupboard!You will need to be prepared - I certainly was amazed at how many "7month babies" survived in my good Methodist family back in the 19th Century!!

Would a visit to the Wiltshire Records Office be productive. If so, I was considering taking a couple of days off work and spending the time doing some research in Swindon.My suggestion here is if Carmarthen is closer is to go and get a bit of practice with their records first and their machines- they may well have copies of the English Census etc on microfiche - if you go to Wiltshire having some idea of what you are looking at and what you want and how to use the machines you will get more out of your time there

The data you folks have obtained does look promising. In 1901, my grandfather would have been 7 years old - if his birth year of 1894 is correct. This piece of information is certainly worth following up.

I cannot find any information on a place called Pinton. This could be because it is a small village or hamlet that has now been absorbed into a town or even renamed/disappeared
Could that be some Barnardos reference - a house name possibly?I think this is unlikely as I was assuming the Barnados bit would have come later when his mother was unable to cope alone - this is only my thought
I understand from the Barnardos website that they can for £15.00 confirm whether a Henry James Smith was indeed a Barnardos child. The provision of details gets somewhat costly!It can get expensive - I have to prioritise - but if you are reasonably confident about the connection and the name as there are not a lot of obvious ones on the 1901 census with the same name in this case it might be worth it

My father told me many years ago that is father lived in a house in Poplar Avenue, Swindon when he was a child. Is there anyway a search can be done on properties alone to identify occupants, and can this be done solely on the census data? Are there other methods of looking at properties in Poplar Avenue? This is where my knowledge gets shaky - certainly after 1911 there are problems finding data due to Data Protection Act and 100 years rule and ... whether other paid sites let you search by road I don't know but certainly on Ancestry I have to trawl through page by page. I don't know what details the land Registry cangive out and again there is almost certainly a charge. Electoral lists are another one i know nothing about.

Certainly a visit to Carmarthen is a useful place to start - having said that is you need to go further back on a Welsh line there are different problems but more on that another time.

Question:
Are there any "night school" classes near you on the basics of family history - I went on one and although only about 8 weeks it was a good starter

Thanks for the assistance so far. Martin

Just seen you have done another post - I will check but yes I think they were all living in one house - I will look it up again after "Who do you think you are?"!! about 10 ish!

[peterd]

cannot find pinton how clear the image as there a purton that is a village just outside swindon ?

purton and highworth about 7 mile apart

see map

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=s ... e&resnum=1

[Maths girl]

cannot find pinton how clear the image as there a purton that is a village just outside swindon ?

purton and highworth about 7 mile apart

I have had another look and the transcription actually says Purton - well done peterd- this is why joining a forum is so useful as everyone has there own areas of expertise and knowledge.

The actual address is given as 5 Albion Terrace. Swindon - I think on the previous page it refers to Albion Terrace Canal Side

and yes -in answer to your question Martin - they were all lving in one house - how big I don't know but with a minimum of 5 rooms or they would have had to state how many.In a terraced house that would have been something like kitchen/living room and then four bedrooms - who slept where would probably have depended on how "close" Isaac & Martha were.

Where you go next will depend on whether this is the right family but for the sake of practice (and it might be right anyway) - Questions to answer -
1)where are the family in 1911? There is free access to 1911 census in about 5 places around the country and I can't remember which is closest to you - there is a link on another thread I think!
2)Henry J's birth certificate should state the name of his father ( if this was acknowledged) and the maiden name of his mother which would then bring you on to looking for a marriage certificate for them. ( There is a chance that if he was Christened you could find some of this information from Parish Records which would be held at the local record office but this is easier if you can pinpoint a possible church - having said that I suspect Purton would have been small then so there is possibly only one parish church to try.

[mgjsmith]

I have just obtained the full details from the 1901 Census Online website and printed off for reference as my starting point. Well worth the £5.00.
The interesting thing is that the Full Household Schedule shows the head of the household as Isaac Brown (widower and 53 years old) and Martha Smith (servant/single and 36 years old). There are also of course the two Smith siblings Frances L (5 years old) and Matilda Smith (less than 1 year old). Now this is starting to get interesting. I wonder what was going on in that household - widower and single mother/servant. The plot thickens! Martin

[Maths girl]

The interesting thing is that the Full Household Schedule shows the head of the household as Isaac Brown (widower and 53 years old) and Martha Smith (servant/single and 36 years old). There are also of course the two Smith siblings Frances L (5 years old) and Matilda Smith (less than 1 year old). Now this is starting to get interesting. I wonder what was going on in that household - widower and single mother/servant. The plot thickens! Martin

Bad luck "Mrs Martin" no more diy - he's hooked!

I was trying in an idle moment (for fun only !)to find a marriage between a Martha unknown and unknown Smith in Highworth and while there appear to have been lots of Martha's getting married in 1892/1893/1894/ - I didn't finish 1891 - I did come across this one

Martha Smith 1895 Highworth Wiltshire
Henry James Stroud 1895 Highworth Wiltshire

which gave me a big oooh!! How to embroider the plot - did she marry Henry James Stroud for respectability - did he die/leave her/??? and she reverted to her maiden name and single status - stranger things happen at sea as they say - I think I should start writing novels but what if???

Tip: Keep a close rein on what facts you have written evidence for and what is pure speculation!!