ARC TBC Elizabeth James 1873-1960

[jakobwingren]

Hi,

I'm helping my fiancee with her genealogy and I've gotten a bit stuck. Her great grandmother Elizabeth James, born 8th of November 1873 (Location unknown, most likely Lancashire or Cheshire), died 18th of October 1960 in Warrington, Lancashire. Buried in Hollinfare Cemetery, Warrington, Cheshire. Married Thomas James and had at least seven children, possibly as many as 13 in total. I can't find Elizabeth and Thomas's wedding in any of the records and therefore I don't know Elizabeth's maiden name. It is likely that they married in Lancashire or Cheshire on or around 1908 as this was the year of birth for their firstborn. Thomas was born in Liverpool, so it is possible that this is also where Elizabeth was from. They had Henry (1908), William (1914), Arthur (1918), Thomas, Alec, Lottie, and Annie (Dates unknown).

Any assistance on finding out the date of Elizabeth and Thomas's wedding, Elizabeth's maiden name, Elizabeth's parents names etc. would be deeply appreciated.

Cheers!

[Jimmy]

1939. 389 Manchester Road, Warrington, Lancashire.
Thomas James. 2 Feb 1875. Pamance Way Worker Heary Worker.
Elizabeth James. 8 Nov. 1873.
William James. 24 Nov 1914. Farm Worker Heary Worker.
Arthur James. 6 march 1918. Farm Worker Heary Worker.

[jakobwingren]

Thanks, Jimmy. Unfortunately, the 1939 census is one of few sources of information that I've found already. Oddly enough, the dates from the census doesn't align 100% with the information I have from Elizabeth's grave. It states that Elizabeth died 18th of October 1960, aged 87 years, which would put her year of birth as 1873 (which is correct), but if she was born in November 1873, her 87th birthday would not have been until a month after her death. Perhaps just a mistake? Thomas's date of birth seems to be correct from the same information from the gravestone.

[grangers14]

Could it be the name changed, transcribed wrong from Jaines to James?

As a possible...
Marriages Mar 1895
Howman Thomas Jonathan W Stockport 8a 60
James Thomas Stockport 8a 60
McNay Kate Stockport 8a 60
Millington Elizabeth Stockport 8a 60
Whitehead-Howman Thomas J Stockport 8a 60

1901. Brickyard Huts, Bucklow, Cheshire
Thomas James, head, 27, Horse Driver at Brick Yard, Spotland
Elizabeth, wife, 28, Stoke on Trent
Harriet, daur, 5, Riddish
Charlotte E, daur, 3, Riddish
Thomas, son, 1, Lymm

1911. Stuthun Huts, Brickyard Martincroft, Warrington, Lymm
Thomas Jaines, Head, 36, Brickyard Labourer
Elizabeth, 37, married 17 years, 8 children, 7 Living, Unknown
Harriet, daur, 15, Reddish
Charlotte, 13, Reddish
Thomas, son, 11, Stuthun Huts? Cheshire
Alice, daur, 9, Lymm
Alfred, son, 7, Lymm
Henry, son, 3, Lymm
Edward, son, 1, Ormskirk
Joseph Moss, lodger, 21, s, Engine Fitter

Some children from GRO
JAMES, HARRIET MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 08A Page 45
JAMES, CHARLOTTE ELLEN MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1898 J Quarter in STOCKPORT Volume 08A Page 34
JONES, THOMAS MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in CHESTER Volume 08A Page 409
JAINES, MARY ALICE MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in BUCKLOW Volume 08A Page 191
JAINES, ALFRED MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1904 M Quarter in BUCKLOW Volume 08A Page 198
JAINES, HENRY MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1908 J Quarter in BUCKLOW Volume 08A Page 205
JAINES, EDWARD MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1909 D Quarter in BUCKLOW Volume 08A Page 186
JAINES, WILLIAM MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1914 D Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 480
JAINES, ARTHUR MILLINGTON
GRO Reference: 1918 J Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 373

[Jimmy]

Looks good to me Jo.

[grangers14]

Seems right to me?

[Jimmy]

Could it be the name changed, transcribed wrong from Jaines to James?

As a possible...
Marriages Mar 1895
Howman Thomas Jonathan W Stockport 8a 60
James Thomas Stockport 8a 60
McNay Kate Stockport 8a 60
Millington Elizabeth Stockport 8a 60
Whitehead-Howman Thomas J Stockport 8a 60

.

Ancestry, image available,

Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930.

Thomas James. 21. Bachelor. Carter. Thomas James. Carter. deceased.
Elizabeth Millington. Spinster. 21.Alfred Millington. Labourer.

Marriage Date: 6 Feb 1895.
Marriage Place: Reddish, St Elisabeth, Lancashire.

Witnesses Alfred Millington. and Ann Millington.

[jakobwingren]

Thank you very much for all this!

It looks right to me too. There are two things that doesn't add up to me when I compare this to the information that I already have.

- In the marriage record above, Thomas's father is named as "Thomas James". In my research I had Thomas's father down as Frederick James. All of this new information makes sense to me, so perhaps I have found the wrong parent for Thomas in my previous research? What is interesting though is that I have Thomas's grandmother, Frederick James's mother, down as Harriet James, which is also one of the names of children above, the first daughter. So that could be right, but perhaps there has been an error in the marriage record regarding Thomas's father considering he was passed away at this point.

- In the excerpt from the 1901 census above, Thomas is listed as having been born in Spotland if I am reading it correctly. According to my previous research, he was born in Liverpool (West Derby). Perhaps this is a second sign that my previous research on Thomas James and his parents is incorrect? Given that it said that he died at the age of 81 years on the January 16th 1957, the alternatives are the ones below from the free bmd:

Births Jun 1875
James Thomas Preston 8e 592
Births Sep 1875
James Thomas W. Derby 8b 325
James Thomas Ashton 8d 501
James Thomas Blackburn 8e 351
Births Dec 1875
JAMES Thomas Bury 8c 539

However, I know from the 1939 census that Thomas was born on February 2nd, so none of these fit 100%

[grangers14]

Spotland is in Rochdale, Lancashire. Near Liverpool??
I don't know where you got the names from in your first message? Perhaps you could go back there for more info or have a birth certificate to go from?
Lottie is generally a nickname for Charlotte.
My husband had an aunty called Sally and her name was actually Sarah? Some people were and are known by middle names too. So is family lore you got the names from?

[jakobwingren]

Sorry for the very late reply. Yes, I got the name from family. So I'm 99.9% sure that what you've found in this thread is correct and this must be the right family. But now I am very unsure if I was right about his parents. Would Spotland be a BMD district of it's own, and if so, why can't I find a Thomas James born in the first quarter of 1875 in the BMD database?

[Jimmy]

If he was born fisrt quarter 1875 it might not have been registered till the second quarter.

[jakobwingren]

There's no Thomas James in the BMD in first or second quarter in Rochdale. There is however a Thomas Jaine in the first quarter of 1875. No other Thomas J. I cannot find any subsequent record of him. Could that be my Thomas?

[Jimmy]

It could be Jaine.

[Jimmy]

The Thomas Jaine registered jan 1875 as mother Tanner.

[BC Wench]

Is this still a Brickwall, or have you solved it?

Unless otherwise advised this will be moved to the Brickwalls Archived section
within 24 hours