Another Lloyd question

[Katykat]

Hello, I’m trying to find some details that might help me decide who the mother of an ancester is. I have the 1901 census listing Albert T Lloyd as the son of Thomas and Sarah Lloyd of Shropshire. He is aged 8, which would make Sarah 46 when he was born, which was 27 years after her first child Zillah. I think it more likely that Zillah, age 35, still single and living with her parents, is his mother but I’m trying now to establish this. I think Zillah never married but died aged 94 ( but she also had a cousin Zillah who this death just might be attributed to) Anyway, I thought I’d try & trace Alberts life to see if it reveals any clues. The attached document could be my Albert, ut can anyone find any more details than is listed? This says that he became a Chealsea pensioner, but is there anywhere that I could find out any family details? Also, it says the records date between 1790-1913, but that Albert was born in 1892( I have my Albert born 1893, which could fit, but wouldn’t he be too young for any 1790-1913 records?

[gardener]

Hi.

Is that the same as this record on Ancestry?

Name: Albert Thomas Lloyd
Enlistment Age: 19
Birth Date: abt 1892
Birth Place: High Ercall Lacop
Enlistment Year: 1911
Regiment: K. S. L. I.
Regimental Number: 9758
Attestation Paper: Yes

Findmypast has a couple of possibilities too:

Lloyd Albert Thomas 1892 — 1911 British Army Service Records High Ercall, Wellington, Shropshire, England

and

Lloyd Albert Thomas 1892 — 1919 Royal Tank Corps Enlistment Records, 1919-1934 High Ercall, Wellington, Shropshire, England

and Ancestry has that one (possibly the same person if he transferred)

Name: Albert Thomas Lloyd
Military Year: 1914-1920
Rank: Warrant Officer Class 2
Medal Awarded: British War Medal and Victory Medal
Regiment or Corps: Royal Tank Corps
Regimental Number: 75375
Previous Units: 9. Notts. & Derby. 12462. WO II, 1 Notts & Derby 12462., 2. Notts. & Derby. 12462., Tank Cps. 75375

but on the document it says his medals were forfeited under Para. 392 (x) TR 22.4.21
I'm not good at the military stuff, but I think that means he had a criminal conviction from before his enlistment. Which doesn't really fit with a pension, though he could have been included in a list even though it later turned out he was not eligible, if you see what I mean.

Perhaps someone with a subscription could look at the army records and see if either gives his parents or any other details?

[Katykat]

Thank you Gardener. It does seem that the first one and the second on your list are one and the same and does fit my ancestor details. He was born in High Ercall, Wellington. I think the name Lacop probably means Salop ( the old derivative for Shropshire) Not too sure about the last one as it doesn’t give a DOB and I know nothing about his military background. Hopefully someone could throw a little more light on the military records.

[gardener]

I found some more scraps about the Tank Regiment one (available from British Newspaper Archives and Find My Past)

"... SERGEANT-MAJOR'S ALLEGED BIGAMY. THREE WOMEN THE CASE. Albert Thomas Lloyd, a Company-Sergeant- Major of tbe Ist Depot Battalion, Tank Corps, Worgret Camp, has been committed by the Wareham County Bench for trial at Dorset Assises (January 22nd) on the charge of having married Elsie May Needham, his former wife being then alive. t Annie Lloyd, living at 2, Church-street, Wellington (Salop), who held a baby in her arms stated she was the wife of defendent,to whom ......"

"... (Derbyshire) on November 29th, 1919, and she produced the certificate. At that time accused was company-sergeant-major the Tank Corps, stationed at Worgret Camp. She had lived with prisoner at Stoborough and Bidge until December 4th last, when he deserted ..."

Published: Friday 14 January 1921
Newspaper: Western Gazette
County: Somerset, England

Another report gives his age as 28. So the same name, same county and same age.


These marriages?

Marriages Sep 1913

Elson Ann Lloyd Wellington Sh. 6a 1633
Lloyd Albert T Elson Wellington Sh. 6a 1633

Marriages Dec 1919
Lloyd Albert T Needham Bakewell 7b 2332
Needham Elsie M Lloyd Bakewell 7b 2332

[Katykat]

Ooh, scandal in the family.. I love digging up any dirt. I have got Albert married to Ann Elson in 1913. No wonder I couldn’t trace his life, he probably served time and then perhaps kept under the radar. It might even explain why I can’t trace Zillah, who I believe was probably his mother. There is no marriage record, or census records for her. I also can’t find any other records of Thomas or Sarah after the 1901 census. The family seem to disappear. I wonder if the army pension record means that he had his pension revoked rather than paid out? Of course, none of this solves my conundrum, but I think I might be delving a bit too deep. Interesting though.

[gardener]

I think this is Sarah Ann in 1911 - her birthplace matches the 1891 census

Name: Ann Lloyd
Age in 1911: 64
Estimated birth year: abt 1847
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Waters Upton, Shoprshire
Civil Parish: Ercall Magna
Street address: Cold Hatton, Wellington, Salop
Marital status: Widowed
Registration district: Wellington
Registration District Number: 355
Sub-registration district: Ercall Magna
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 116
Piece: 16286
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Lloyd 64

[Katykat]

Thank you Gardener. That’s looks like the one. She’s dropped the Sarah and is just using Ann. It also looks like Thomas died between 1901-1911. All these people are a bit of a way off the main branch of my tree but I do rec ordt any detail however slight because occasionally it opens up the bigger picture.