*Arc tbc* -Portman/Byng/Williams/Parsons Puzzle

[mumbles]

I note you are working on a Thomas Portman and by chance so am I but not the same one.
On bcc I have inserted Elizabeth Byng born 1871 with a note that on 1881 Census she is shown as illegitimate dau. of Thomas Portman b.1854 Halesowen or his wife Eliza . She then married a George Williams under name Elizabeth Byng even though name on 1891 Census was Elizabeth Portman
I cannot find marriage for Thomas and Eliza which would help to determine parent of Elizabeth Byng .
I have found an Eliza Byng married a Joseph Portman in St. John Halesowen in 1874 but this may be a red herring.
I have other Portmans to insert but would like to resolve puzzle about Elizabeth Byng before inserting.
It would appear options are that 1) Thomas Portman had a child by a woman with surname Byng or 2) Eliza had a child before marriage and her surname was Byng or 3) Eliza had a child by a man with surname Byng before marriage and name child by father's surname

[Northern Lass]

Think we need to find out if her father is actually this Thomas Portman

have you looked up the marriage Mumbles?

1891
BYNG Elizabeth WILLIAMS George Halesowen, St John the Baptist Dudley Register Office 014/006/268


would be interesting to see if a father is on it

ELIZABETH BYNG
Christening: 21 MAR 1855 Halesowen, Worcester, England

Parents:
Father: LEVI BYNG
Mother: MARY Extracted

[peterd]

Think we need to find out if her father is actually this Thomas Portman

have you looked up the marriage Mumbles?

1891
BYNG Elizabeth WILLIAMS George Halesowen, St John the Baptist Dudley Register Office 014/006/268


would be interesting to see if a father is on it

ELIZABETH BYNG
Christening: 21 MAR 1855 Halesowen, Worcester, England

Parents:
Father: LEVI BYNG
Mother: MARY Extracted

levi byng is poss related to thomas byng from that albert byng topic

[Northern Lass]

Pete run with connecting if you can ....

Ok done the look up for the 1891 marriage for Elizabeth Byng and George Williams and will post on BCC
but this is odd.
NO FATHER is on the marriage...rien...nought...zilch!

I dont think Thomas Portman is her father
tempted to send for the birth cert if anyone can verify it as the 1872 one halesowen
then we will get mothers name
I will say I only want it if mothers name is Eliza or Elizabeth
what do we think!

I also looked up that 1874 marriage and that is deffo a Joseph Portman ...no father for him either!!
I dont think that is our Eliza Byng..but hey who knows....will post later

Wondered if Eliza was married to a Byng prev
think we need that birth cert to get her name
please advise guys

[Northern Lass]

This is a complex one

I think that Eliza Byng is the dau of Swithen Byng here...and needs adding

on the look ups they have names that connect...ie

on the look up for Elizabeth Byng to george Williams she uses her aunt as witness...Bertha Byng

and

Eliza Byng uses her brother Robert Byng

so I think that Eliza Byng is dau of Swithen Byng and Ellen
she marries a Joseph Portman in 1874
already has Elizabeth Byng
Joseph dies or leaves
and she is then with Thomas Portman....maybe a brother..cousin

can we unravel this?

is there a death betw 1874 - 1881 for Joseph Portman?
Is Eliza with Swithen father on a census

need these bits guys...

[Northern Lass]

26 December 1891 St John Halesowen
-George Williams-21-bach- tube worker- Brimingham St Boro- George Williams nailmaker
-Elizabeth Byng- 20- spinster - spike maker- Blackberry lane Hasbury- no father on Certificate at all!
banns
X both
Wit- Edward Goddard X/ X Bertha Byng

here is Bertha...
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =285025542

can anyone find this Swithen on 1871 please
http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/tr ... =851925149

need Eliza there!

the address too is Black berry lane for this lot same as Thomas Portman and Eliza
all there in 1881

[Northern Lass]

here is the marriage for Joseph Portman and Eliza Byng

12 Sept 1874 St Johns Halesowen
-Joseph Portman- 20- bach- nailer- Hasbury- no father on cert
-Eliza Byng- 18- spinster- nailer- Hasbury- Swithen Byng- nailer
banns
X both
Wit - Robert Byng X / Esther Byng

[FarSide]

1871
157
Spring Hill, Hasbury
Sauther Byng 34 - Nailor - b Bromsgrove
Ellen Byng 33 - Nailor - b Belbrougton
Eliza Byng 16 - Nailor - Bromsgrove
Joseph Byng 9 - Nurse
William Byng 6
Robert Byng 4
Eliza Byng 1 - b Hasbury
others b Rowley

[FarSide]

it's Ezra on the page

Eliza Byng
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Sauther
Mother's Name: Ellen

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3018; Folio: 76; Page: 29; GSU roll: 838829.

[Northern Lass]

Think this is her
1854
BYNG Elizabeth Halesowen Dudley Register Office HAL/013/16

[FarSide]

Copy from BCC
1881 16
Blackberry Lane, Hasbury
Swithin Byng 44
Ellen Byng 43
William C. Byng 16
Robert Byng 14
Israel Byng 11
Bertha Byng 6
Ragland Byng
all Nailmakers

[Northern Lass]

Copy from BCC
1881 16
Blackberry Lane, Hasbury
Swithin Byng 44
Ellen Byng 43
William C. Byng 16
Robert Byng 14
Israel Byng 11
Bertha Byng 6
Ragland Byng
all Nailmakers

gottcha!

ok so then she hasnt had the dau Elizabeth yet
how can we tie this Elizabeth Byng dau of Swithen to mother of Elizabeth who marries George Williams
other than the birth cert
if we need that I will order it!

The witnesses as sibs of Eliza Byng snr tie in Robert (on Eliza Byng snr marriage)
and Bertha ( on Elizabeth Byng jnr marriage)
The name Ellen is their for dau of Elizabeth/Eliza snr and it is the mothers name for Elizabeth Byng
The area Bellbroughton too!
The address Blackberry lane that Swithen is at in 1881 as is the Portmans

[FarSide]

Witness's
1871
138
Spring Hill, Hasbury
Robert Byng 26 - Nailor
Esther Byng 27 - Nailor
Ann Maria Byng 8
Esther Byng 5 - b Bromsgrove
Mary Ann Byng 1 - b Hasbury
others b Belbroughton

1881
18
Blackberry Lane, Hasbury
Robert Byng 39 - Nailmaker - Bromsgrove
Esther Byng 40 - Nailmaker - Bromsgrove
Ann Maria Byng 18 - Nailmaker
Esther Byng 16 - Nailmaker
Robert Byng 7
others b Hasbury

Dec 1862
Byng Robert Bromsgrove 6c 646
Griffin Esther Bromsgrove 6c 646

[FarSide]

Poss
Marriages Jun 1893
Byng Bertha Stourbridge 6c 228
Goddard George Stourbridge 6c 228

1893
BYNG Bertha GODDARD George Halesowen, St John the Baptist Dudley Register Office 014/006/364

[Northern Lass]

Witness's
1871
138
Spring Hill, Hasbury
Robert Byng 26 - Nailor
Esther Byng 27 - Nailor
Ann Maria Byng 8
Esther Byng 5 - b Bromsgrove
Mary Ann Byng 1 - b Hasbury
others b Belbroughton

1881
18
Blackberry Lane, Hasbury
Robert Byng 39 - Nailmaker - Bromsgrove
Esther Byng 40 - Nailmaker - Bromsgrove
Ann Maria Byng 18 - Nailmaker
Esther Byng 16 - Nailmaker
Robert Byng 7
others b Hasbury

Dec 1862
Byng Robert Bromsgrove 6c 646
Griffin Esther Bromsgrove 6c 646

Ok so not a brother robert but she has an Uncle called Robert b abt 1841?

brother to Swithen...wot u think?