Joseph Downing & Ann Millard ARC TBC

[SRD]

Starting from here https://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/t ... ver=413874

I've got:

FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: Rowley Regis
Church name: St Giles
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 08 Jan 1797
Person forename: Joseph
Person sex: M
Father forename: Thomas
Father surname: DOWNING
Mother forename: Mary

GRO records for their latter born children state that mother's Maiden Surname was Millard, the closest I can find is this one but the census records don't agree:
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Worcestershire
Place: Dudley
Church name: St Thomas
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 9 Dec 1804
Person forename: Ann
Person sex: F
Father forename: Joseph
Father surname: MILLWARD
Mother forename: Eleanor

Census 1841
Josh Downing 40 Miner Worcestershire
Ann Downing 40 Nailer Worcestershire
Willm Downing 20 Miner Worcestershire
Thos Downing 15 Miner Worcestershire
Mary Downing 10 Worcestershire
Sarah Downing 8 Worcestershire
Elizab Downing 5 Worcestershire
Anna Downing 4 Worcestershire
Jno Downing 2 Worcestershire
Page: 37
Address: Cross St. (Dudley)

Deaths Dec 1846 (>99%)
DOWNING Joseph Dudley 18 232

FreeREG
Type: Burial
County: Worcestershire
Place: Dudley
Church name: St Thomas
Register type: Unspecified
Register entry number: 425
Burial date: 29 Dec 1846
Person age: 49
Burial person forename: Joseph
Burial person surname: DOWNING
Burial person abode: Dudley
Register note: Died 24 Dec

Census 1851
Ann Downing Head W 50 Coal setter & nailer Worcester Dudley
William Downing Son U 29 Labourer Worcester Dudley
Sarah Downing Daur U 20 Washerwoman Worcester Dudley
John Downing Son 11 Labourer Worcester Dudley
Louisa Downing Daur 9 Scholar Worcester Dudley
Richard Guflofol Lodger U 25 Miner Gloucestershire
Address: Cross street (Dudley)

Census 1861
Ann Downing Head W 60 Laundress Worcester Dudley
Sarah Betty Daur Mar 29 Laundress Worcester Dudley
Mary Ann Betty Grand daur 3 Worcester Dudley
Hannah Betty Grand daur 2 Worcester Dudley
Address: Cross Street (Dudley)
Note: Next household is John Millard Head, Mar 50 Carpenter Worcester Dudley and his sons John & James

Census 1871
Ann Downing Head Wid 70 Domestic Servt Worcester Dudley
Sarah Bettey Dau Mar 40 Domestic Servt Worcester Dudley
Hannah Bettey Grand dau 12 Scholar Worcester Dudley
Address: 14 Cross Street (Dudley)

There's a possible:
Census 1881
Joseph Ward Head Mar 54 Labourer Iron Works Staffordshire Tipton
Ann Ward Wife Mar 52 Worcestershire Dudley
Maria G. Ward Daur Mar 25 Weaver Worcestershire Dudley
Eliza Cheltenham Daur Mar 21 Weaver Worcestershire Dudley
Thos.H. Cheltenham Son in Law Mar 19 Labourer Steel Works Worcestershire Dudley
Emily Ward Daughter Unm 18 Weaver Worcestershire Dudley
Thomas Ward Son 10 Scholar Worcestershire Dudley
Ann Downing Mother in L Wid 80 Worcestershire Dudley
Thomas Gethen G son 3 mo Yorkshire
Address: 52 Exmouth St (Barrow in Furness)

But the daughter born in 1829 was Mary Ann:
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Worcestershire
Place: Dudley
Church name: St Thomas
Register type: Unspecified
Register entry number: 725
Baptism date: 22 Feb 1829
Person forename: Mary Ann
Person sex: F
Person abode: Dudley
Father forename: Joseph
Father surname: DOWNING
Father occupation: Miner
Mother forename: Ann

Who I thought was married to James Wassell
FreeREG
Type: Marriage
County: Worcestershire
Place: Dudley
Church name: St Edmund
Register type: Parish Register
Register entry number: 222
Marriage date: 20 Oct 1848
Groom forename: James
Groom surname: WASSELL
Groom age: of full age
Groom condition: bachelor
Groom abode: Dudley
Groom occupation: Fitter
Bride forename: Mary Ann
Bride surname: DOWNING
Bride age: of full age
Bride condition: spinster
Bride abode: Dudley
Groom father forename: Thomas
Groom father surname: WASSELL
Groom father occupation: Labourer
Bride father forename: Joseph
Bride father surname: DOWNING
Bride father occupation: Collier
Witness: David Fellowes JEAVONS
Witness: Sarah WASSELL
Register note: Groom, Bride & both Witnesses sign X
with census records up to and including 1881.

Assuming the 1881 census for Ann Downing is correct I've not been able to find:
1. A daughter Ann born 1829
2. A marriage of that daughter to Joseph Ward

If that 1881 doesn't refer to 'my' Ann Downing where is she?
And where is her subsequent death record?

Finally (I hope), if that 1804 Baptism isn't her, where is her birth/baptism record?

Can anyone help with this?

[SRD]

I don't know what was up with me last night:
Here's the marriage from Ancestry:
England, Select Marriages
Marriage Date: 1850
Name: Joseph Ward
Age: 22
Marriage Place: St. Martin, Tipton, Staffordshire
Father: William Ward
Spouse: Ann Downing
Age: 21
Father: Joseph Downing

FreeBMD has:
Marriages Dec 1850 (>99%)
Downing Ann Dudley 18 501
Ward Joseph Dudley 18 501


Is it possible to look this up to find Joseph's occupation?

[grangers14]

You could request the marriage to be looked up in the look up section.

Could this be Anns burial?
Freereg Burial
29th October 1871. Wolverhampton Street, Methodist Chapel.
Ann Downing, 73, Dudley

There are a couple of Ann Downings around that age...
Also another Joseph and Ann Downing in Dudley.

[Jimmy]

1861. Angel Street, Tipton.
Joseph Ward 32. Labourer. Tipton.
Anne Ward 31.
Richard Ward 8.
Ann M Ward 5.
Eliza Ward 1.

Others born Dudley.

WARD, RICHARD     DOWNING.
GRO Reference: 1852  D Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 124.

WARD, ANN  MARIA   DOWNING.
GRO Reference: 1855  J Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 130.


1871.
Joseph Ware 40. Labourer.
Ann Ware 42.
Richard Ware 18.
Maria Ware 13.
Eliza Ware 11.
Emelia Ware 8.
Thoma Ware 10 Months.
Ann Dowing 72. Mother in law. Warwickshire.

Others born Dudley.

[Jimmy]

Ancestry,

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973.

Joseph Downing.
Ann Millard.
Marriage Date: 18 Nov 1821.
Marriage Place: St. Mary'S, Kingswinford, Stafford.
FHL Film Number: 1040004.
Reference ID: 95.

[grangers14]

1861. Angel Street, Tipton.
Joseph Ward 32. Labourer. Tipton.
Anne Ward 31.
Richard Ward 8.
Ann M Ward 5.
Eliza Ward 1.

Others born Dudley.

WARD, RICHARD     DOWNING.
GRO Reference: 1852  D Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 124.

WARD, ANN  MARIA   DOWNING.
GRO Reference: 1855  J Quarter in DUDLEY  Volume 06C  Page 130.


1871.
Joseph Ware 40. Labourer.
Ann Ware 42.
Richard Ware 18.
Maria Ware 13.
Eliza Ware 11.
Emelia Ware 8.
Thoma Ware 10 Months.
Ann Dowing 72. Mother in law. Warwickshire.

Others born Dudley.

That 1871 census can´t be the same Ann as she was with still at Cross Street. I wonder if it is the other Joseph and Ann I have seen?

[grangers14]

1841. Grey Stone Street, Dudley
Joseph Downing, 50, Nail m,
Ann, 40,
Joseph, 20, Nail m
Cornelius, 12,
Ann, 10,
Walter, 7,
Emma, 5,
Rachel, 2
All born in County

[Jimmy]

1851. Cross Street. Dudley.
William Ward 46.
Margaret Ward 44.
Joseph Ward 23. Son. Labourer.
Ann Ward 22. Dau in law.
Thomas Ward 21.
Sarah Ward 14.
John Ward 11.
Susannah Ward 8.
William Ward 6.
Margaret Ward 2.
Richard Ward 14.
Joseph Ward 77. Father.
Sarah Ward 84. Mother.

[Jimmy]

1841. Darby Hand, Dudley.
Ledia Downing 35. Widow.
Ann Downing 12.
Ealenia Downing 9.
Elizabeth Downing 6.
Susaniah Downing 2.

Dudley St Thomas.
Register entry number 1499.
Baptism date 06 Dec 1829.
Ann Downing. Bumble Hole.
Father William DOWNING. Labourer.
Mother Lydia.

Halesowen St John the Baptist.
Register entry number 368.
Marriage date 12 Nov 1826.
William DOWNING. Bachelor. Otp.
Lydia PEARSHALL. Spinster. Otp.
Witness
Francis DOWNING.
Witness
Mary SMITH.

[grangers14]

Ancestry,

England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973.

Joseph Downing.
Ann Millard.
Marriage Date: 18 Nov 1821.
Marriage Place: St. Mary'S, Kingswinford, Stafford.
FHL Film Number: 1040004.
Reference ID: 95.

Parish record doesn´t help just says...
Joseph Downing OTP Ann Millward OTP
Banns
Witnesses, Thomas Walker, William Hughes (They must both have been to do with church as they are often on)

[SRD]

1841. Grey Stone Street, Dudley
Joseph Downing, 50, Nail m,
Ann, 40,
Joseph, 20, Nail m
Cornelius, 12,
Ann, 10,
Walter, 7,
Emma, 5,
Rachel, 2
All born in County

That's the other Downing family, son Cornelius is the easy giveaway, 'my' Downings didn't have a son Cornelius and 'my' Joseph was a miner through & through, this one is just as steadily a nailer.
That Ann was, I think, Ann Hartley:
Birmingham, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns
Birmingham
St Martin
Year: 1820
Month: November
Date: 25
Name: Joseph Downing
Spouse: Ann Hartley
But I haven't checked that as it's not part of my direct line.

I've got this lot as more tie-ins to the nailer downings:
FreeREG
Type: Baptism
County: Staffordshire
Place: Rowley Regis
Church name: St Giles
Register type: Unspecified
Baptism date: 30 Jan 1791
Person forename: Joseph
Person sex: M
Father forename: William
Father surname: DOWNING
Mother forename: Alice

Birmingham, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns
Birmingham
St Martin
Year: 1820
Month: November
Date: 25
Name: Joseph Downing
Spouse: Ann Hartley

Census 1841
Joseph Downing 50 Nailer Worcestershire
Ann Downing 40 Worcestershire
Joseph Downing 20 Nailer Worcestershire
Cornelius Downing 12 Worcestershire
Ann Downing 10 Worcestershire
Walter Downing 7 Worcestershire
Emma Downing 5 Worcestershire
Rachal Downing 2 Worcestershire
Street address: Grey Stone Street, Dudley

Census 1851
Joseph Downing Head Mar 60 Nailer Worcestersh Dudley
Ann Downing Wife Mar 50 Nailer Warwicksh Birmingham
Cornelius Downing Son U 24 Pudler Worcestersh Dudley
Emma Downing Daur U 17 Nailer Worcestersh Dudley
Rachael Downing Daur U 13 Nailer Worcestersh Dudley
Address: Old Dock, Cleveland St, Dudley

FreeREG
Type: Burial
County: Worcestershire
Place: Dudley
Church name: St Joh
Register type: Unspecified
Burial date: 02 Dec 1855
Person age: 65
Burial person forename: Joseph
Burial person surname: DOWNING
Burial person abode: Dudley

Marriages Dec 1850 (>99%)
Downing Ann Dudley 18 501
Ward Joseph Dudley 18 501

England, Select Marriages
Marriage Place: St. Martin, Tipton, Staffordshire
Marriage Date: 1850
Name: Joseph Ward
Age: 22
Father: William Ward
Spouse: Ann Downing
Age: 21
Father: Joseph Downing

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FreeREG
County: Worcestershire
Place: Dudley
Church name: St Thomas
Register type: Unspecified
Register entry number: 3659
Baptism date: 15 Apr 1832
Person forename: Walter
Person sex: M
Person abode: Dudley
Father forename: Joseph
Father surname: DOWNING
Father occupation: Nailer
Mother forename: Ann

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
FreeREG
County: Worcestershire
Place: Dudley
Church name: St Thomas
Register type: Unspecified
Register entry number: 1259
Baptism date: 19 Feb 1838
Person forename: Rachael
Person sex: F
Person abode: Dudley
Father forename: Joseph
Father surname: DOWNING
Father occupation: Nailer
Mother forename: Ann

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
But they're only jottings, nothing's been cross-referenced.

[grangers14]

GRO says

DOWNING, RACHAEL HARTLAND
GRO Reference: 1838 M Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 245

I presume surname has been miss transcribed at some point?

[Jimmy]

Starting from here https://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/t ... ver=413874


Census 1851.
Ann Downing Head W 50 Coal setter & nailer Worcester Dudley
William Downing Son U 29 Labourer Worcester Dudley
Sarah Downing Daur U 20 Washerwoman Worcester Dudley
John Downing Son 11 Labourer Worcester Dudley
Louisa Downing Daur 9 Scholar Worcester Dudley
Richard Guflofol Lodger U 25 Miner Gloucestershire
Address: Cross street[/i] (Dudley).

These fit with 1851,

DOWNING, JOHN     MILLARD.
GRO Reference: 1839  J Quarter in DUDLEY UNION  Volume 18  Page 286.

DOWNING, LOUISA     MILLARD. 
GRO Reference: 1841  S Quarter in DUDLEY UNION  Volume 18  Page 224. 

[grangers14]

I am adding... Some of the other info of the other Joseph Downing and Joseph Ward, more to be added.
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/brows ... =311591632

Thomas Smith...
1861. Vauxall Street, Dudley.
Thomas Smith, head, 24, Miner
Rachael, wife, 23,
Caroline, daur, 1,
Ann Downing, Mother, W, 65, Nailer, Birmingham
All others born Dudley

[grangers14]

1851. Cross Street. Dudley.
William Ward 46.
Margaret Ward 44.
Joseph Ward 23. Son. Labourer.
Ann Ward 22. Dau in law.
Thomas Ward 21.
Sarah Ward 14.
John Ward 11.
Susannah Ward 8.
William Ward 6.
Margaret Ward 2.
Richard Ward 14.
Joseph Ward 77. Father.
Sarah Ward 84. Mother.

Marriage. Freereg.
22nd May 1826. All Saints, West Bromwich.
William Ward, B, West Bromwich,
Margaret Breeze, S, West Bromwich
Witnesses, Zachariah Ward, Elizabeth Ward
Register note. With consent of parents.

??Possible
Burial. Freereg
1 January 1854. St James, Dudley.
Margaret Ward, 45, Dudley

Another wife, Ann??

1861. Angel Street, Dudley.
William Ward, head, 60, Furnace Lab, Tipton.
Ann, wife, 51, Broseley, Shropshire
William, son, 17,
Margaret, daur, 13,
Richard, son, 10,
Thomas Thomas Green?, Lodger, 19, Furnace lab, Bartley?
William Gears, Lodger, 24, Stone Miner, Wellington, Shropshire
All others born Dudley

1871. John Street, Dudley.
William Ward, head, 68, Iron roller in Forge, Tipton
Ann, wife, 62, Boston?
Richard, son, 20, Iron Roller in Forge, Dudley
Richard Ward, G son, 18, Iron worker in Forge, Dudley