ARC TBC William Smith c1833--

[truebritmega]

Oh well done everyone! and yes you have the right family lol.. and yes its trying to get william smith... 1833, further back now where Im stuck... looks through all your posts slowly to take them in lol

[BC Wench]

I have added what info I have on BCC here :-

http://bcconnections.tribalpages.com/fa ... ith-Family

[truebritmega]

ty BCWench.. one thing I can tell you from your info you updated.. is Ryah smith.. is actually John Smith's (1855) daughter.. (I havent checked them all out yet...)

But Ryah... is actually Maria Elizabeth Evans Smith... who later becomes davies... (and is at home living w her parents on one cenus along w her hubby and son)

John... Marries a Selina "Evans".. in wolverhampton (or at least registered in wolvo...) Ive ordered that wedding cert and am picking it up friday, so hopefully... I'll find out if Johns wife... Selina, was unmarried as an Evans.. or if she was a married.. evans

Looks at all the results you have all found (ty very much) and tries to work out which could be william,(parthenas hubby william) and more importantly.. which one is williams father..
too many williams in My tree!)


There is also this... possibly for William 1833...

28 Jul 1833 St Thomas Dudley Worcestershire
William Smith mother Mary Smith
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NV93-HMZ

The other good thing.. is that the fam all moved to Ward Street Bilston.. which is where they ended up when it came down to My dads family too..

[truebritmega]

and BC Wench?

ty for showing me your updated tree.. I jsut noticed your question you put on it tho...

WHY ARE THERE 2 SONS BY THE NAME OF JOHN? Could the John born in 1878 be the son of John born 1855?

Its because, john, is the son of william and parthena... the other John.. is actually John Henry smith... , Johns son (also if I remember right, a worker at the loco shop, which Im assuming is Bilston Steelworks?)

1881 Census - 18 Ward Street, Bilston
William Smith - Head.M - 49 - Blast Furnaceman - Netherton
Parthenia Smith - Wife - 49 - Dudley
/
John Smith - Head.M - 26 - Blast Furnace Engineer - Dudley
[son of William & Parthena above]
William Smith - Son.UM - 17 - Blast Furnace Labourer - Dudley
Phoebe Smith - Dau - 11 - Scholar - Dudley
Hannah Smith - Dau - 8 - Scholar - Bilston
Joseph Smith - Son - 6 - Scholar - Bilston
Alice Smith - Dau - 4 - Scholar - Bilston
Ryah Smith - Dau - 5 - Scholar - Bilston
John Smith - Son - 3 - Bilston
n.b. WHY ARE THERE 2 SONS BY THE NAME OF JOHN? Could the John born in 1878 be the son of John born 1855?

[Northern Lass]

will sticky this and have a look thru at weekend

[truebritmega]

I was asked to post this... about the fam... from pm into the thread so...

I had, paused the tree for a while, but in a general search the other week I accidentally came across granddads war record (William Thomas Smith 1891) and its that that fired me off again...

Grandads line.. appear to be mostly... Dudley, Netherton then into Bilston and wolverhampton

Most of them appear... to have worked at Bilston Steelworks I believe.. and granddad and his father and his father.. were at some point blast furnace men

John Smith.. (Son of the William 1833 Im seeking) born1855 Netherton... has been annoying, his wife, selena... it turned out that there first child, wasnt his... because at marriage his daughter showed up as a Maria Elizabeth Evans... Smith

John and Selina marry in 1876... but in 1881 census, maria.. is at home w John (at his.. parents)... listed as "Ryha" ... John.. is listed as Married... but selina.. isnt there... shes still alive tho cos they have a handful more kids

there other child.. william thomas smith.. My granddad... his birth cert has his parents as John Smith and Selena "Evans" ... but, is she an unmarried mother and she is an evans? or is she the wife.. of an evans.. and where on earth is she in 1881 lol... all I have as a definite of her is she is from Froghall, staffordshire...

Ive ordered there marriage cert.. Im hoping it will give me the answer to that... "if" it is the right marriage lol

[truebritmega]

Looks like theres quite a few possibles.. for William huh? not sure how to work out which one will be him.. for sure?:(

[BC Wench]

Hello trubritmega, thank you for the information on the 2 Johns and Ryah. My interest mainly lies with the Careless side, but I will have a look through all the information and get back to you.

[Northern Lass]

Hi True Brit

I will go thru this at weekend see if I can add ought else

BC wench if you are up to speed with this thread can you see what we need re look ups?
I have some of the W'ton ones

TRue brit would you like me to add your username to Wm Smith b 1833 then if anyone else connects
they can contact you via forum.

so are we still looking for who Wm Smith connects to?

[BC Wench]

Hello True Brit, these are my thoughts.

WILLIAM SMITH BORN ABT 1833:
Through all the censuses when he is married to Parthena Careless, he gives his place of birth mainly as Dudley, and Netherton (Netherton came under Dudley)

On FreeREG, I can see only one William Smith born about 1833 with no father’s name (the one you found on familysearch):-

Baptism: 28 July 1833 at St Thomas, Dudley
William – Mother: Mary SMITH – Abode: Dudley – Notes: Illegitimate

If this is the correct baptism, Mary could have married between the birth of William and the 1841 census! Which Mary Smith are we looking for!!

At the moment, FreeREG http://www.freereg.org.uk covers baptisms for St Thomas’s, Dudley 1813-1859.

MARIA ELIZABETH EVANS/SMITH:
From FreeREG
Baptism: 28 Mar 1875 at High Street Primitive Methodist Chapel, Bilston
Birth: 8 Mar 1875 – Maria Elizabeth – Abode: Smith Street – Father’s Surname: Evans – Mother’s Name: Lena (No father’s first name)

This looks very much as though Maria Elizabeth was illegitimate.

SELINA EVANS (Mother of Maria Elizabeth & Wife of John Smith):
Baptism: 12 May 1857 at High Street Primitive Methodist Chapel, Bilston
Selina – Abode: Smith Street – Parents: William & Elizabeth Evans – Father’s occ: Miner

I found a Selina Evans on census living in Smith Street, Bilston, with parents William & Elizabeth (which could be the correct one) but William & Elizabeth’s births are different in census:-

1861 Census – 33 Smith Street, Bilston
William Evans – Head.M – 33 – Boatman – Sellatyn, Salop (born c1828)
Elisabeth Evans – Wife – 38 – Bickford, Salop (born c1823)
Charles Evans – Son.UM – 18 – Boatman – Braden Heath, Salop (born c1843)
Martha Evans – Dau – 7 – Scholar – Bilston (born c1854)
Selenia Evans – Dau – 4 – Scholar – Bilston (born c1857)

1871 Census – Smith Street, Bilston
William Evans - Head.M – 52 – Forge Labourer – Knockin, Salop (born c1819)
Elizabeth Evans – Wife.M – 57 – House Duties – Ellesmere. Salop (born: c1814)
Charles Evans – Son.M (ditto written under above line) – 29 – Coal Miner – Welsh Hampton
Selena Evans – Dau – 13 – Scholar – Bilston

There’s also quite an age gap between the children Charles, Selina & Martha Evans.

I found John & Selina Smith in the various census, but still can’t find Selina in the 1881 census.

Best to wait until you receive the marriage certificate for Selina Evans and John Smith:-

Marriages Jun 1876
John Smith & Selina Evans Wolverhampton 6b 647

NL - Before the census info goes on to BCC I think it's best for True Brit to wait for the above marriage cert.

[Northern Lass]

addd and tweaked some bits

let us know the marriage info will you True brit interesting to see what that says.
cant see it on my W'ton stuff.

[truebritmega]

Thank u so much for that big breakdown up there BC,...(ill look properly later, just popped on on my tab to add an update)

well I've got the marriage cert and...not sure lol...

The Salina is of that boatman's family but....

The marriage is April 3rd 1876 John bachelor Selina, spinster....married at St Luke's bilston...

Selina's fathers occ boatman... William Evans

Johns occ is 'engine driver'...I thought he was always a blast furnace man....but others of the fam are to do w locos, engines etc...so....

Here is my but...

Johns father, William Smith 'Keeper'....1871 and 1881 show William as blast furnaceman/ engineer.... This keeper occ is what's making me think this is the wrong marriage, and that John isn't still blast furnace, because William 1833, won John, 1855 and Johns son William Thomas 1891 are all of the same trade, father to son.... Blast furnace...

To the rest of the cert John is 21 Selina 20....

Residence, Bilston

Witnesses Charles Evans and Elizabeth Harris...

What do u all think? I think its wrong simply because of those occ details

[truebritmega]

Hi True Brit

I will go thru this at weekend see if I can add ought else

BC wench if you are up to speed with this thread can you see what we need re look ups?
I have some of the W'ton ones

TRue brit would you like me to add your username to Wm Smith b 1833 then if anyone else connects
they can contact you via forum.

so are we still looking for who Wm Smith connects to?

Yes please feel free to add my contact details whichever way u see as best (always handy to let more find me lol)

[truebritmega]

And yes we are atill looking for who William connects to...that one baptism seems the only, and obvious correct William... His being illigitmate is awkward tho cos I guess there's no way to go further now w his father? So my direct.. Smith line continues w this Mary smith?? I hope she was unmarried and is a ...full...smith, for naturally, w me being a smith....its this line I want to work on...its the one I've neglected because of how tricky it was.... Btw I haven't said it yet but...ty everyone, I truly appreciate all the help you are giving me

[BC Wench]

So, this is the marriage (thanks for the information):-

Marriage: 3 April 1876 at St Luke, Bilston
John Smith – 21 – Bachelor – Engine Driver – Bilston – William Smith – Keeper
Selina Evans – 20 – Spinster – Bilston – William Evans – Boatman
Wit: Charles Evans, Elizabeth Harris (LOOKS AS THOUGH THIS CHARLES IS SELINA'S BROTHER)

John’s occupation Engine Driver – as well as having engine drivers on railways, there were also engine drivers in iron works, collieries etc. John’s father William’s occupation Keeper – he could have been a Keeper of a blast furnace.

On John & Selina’s marriage, their ages tie in with their baptism dates.

Baptism: 28 Oct 1855 at St Thomas, Dudley
Birth: 14 Jul 1855 – John – Parents: William & Parthena Smith – Abode: Darby End – Father’s occ: Labourer

Baptism: 12 May 1857 at High Street Primitive Methodist Chapel, Bilston
Selina – Abode: Smith Street – Parents: William & Elizabeth Evans – Father’s occ: Miner

On the birth certificate you have of your grandfather William Thomas Smith, does it say something like

Birth Date: ??? – William Thomas – Father: John Smith – Mother: Selina Smith formerly Evans

Can you give us the full details please, because I’m pretty sure this is the correct marriage.

I will add on BCC info on descendants of John & Selina to see if you have the same and obviously correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks NL for adding the extra info onto BCC.